re post 57, Did you not have a word with the builders Doug, when they handed over the keys?😀
Roy

You guys are the best!!!!
😂😂🤣🤣🤣

Don't laugh Doug,
I have seen it used quite nicely. Especially when using foam insulation, between bulkheads, to fair a hull that will be epoxied. I don't recall any outlets though......🤕

"drywall mud"
Try Wattle and Daub Jump.😁
Seemed to work fine when they built my old cottage in England in 1860😁
(Don't think they imagined trying to fix electrical outlets or light fixtures though. 😠***** Expletives deleted!)
Following with immense interest👍
Cheers, 😎

Ahh…carving balsa block, my favorite job..almost as much fun as changing the litter boxes🤣
I’m kidding (mostly). I’ve built an unknown number of model aircraft over the years, and most of them were built up from balsa and ply save for my stint flying RC combat. It took me a while to figure out that it was easier to rough carve with a good long blade, then hit it with 80-100 grit till it was ALMOST to shape, then finish it off with a finer grit. Of course, you have the odd buddy who has a belt sander that states “don’t know what your problem is, belt sander makes that an easy job!”🤣
Anyway, she’s looking good Jump. Keeping an eye on this build! Any ide what her finished ballasted weight is gonna be?
Cash

No worries Tora! Putty, spackle, drywall mud too! 😂🤣😉

I am NOT making fun ... even 25 years ago, Sterling should have supplied putty with their models. Don't leave home without it!. F/G is certainly the way to go. Someone even made a hull of her many,many,many moons past.
She will be a great build. Bubbleheads take note: new target about to hit the water. 😀😀😀

Tora,
On this particular old time kit…it’s a necessary evil, even though I will fiber glass it in the end. 😉

Also the balsa is so old and hairy that will give it a coat of matte poly to raise the grain even more and to make sanding off the hairy grain a bit simpler.
It’s like sanding a surfboard it’s so big!
😂

Oh No! Is that wood putty I see? I wondered where my can went..🤣🤣🤣🤣

Sanding has commenced! Pix to
follow! 😀

She's coming right along, looking good. Just needs a sanding.😋😋

Bow and Stern roughed in.
The stern is a tough job because it's the old...now take this huge block of balsa and "shape to size as illustrated in the plans."
Knives, sandpaper, and bitching the Sterling way!
🙄😂🤣

Roy,
Great link! Thanks for posting it.
Most manufacturers have similar pages for their motors. Some are really hard to find though.😊

Hi all, most of the 540 and 550 can motors are made by Mabuchi. When I last saw a statistic they were making half a million a day, 1.4 Billion a year!

As some will know the last digit refers to the number of armature coils 540 = 3, 545 = 5.

Frequently missed out are the 2 preceeding letters that refer to the shape of the motor, R = round and the second letter the brush type to the commutator.
The smaller motors are RE260 etc, (round and metal brushes)

To compare motors you need the next 4 digits. For true motor comparison at least for standard ones see link.
Opt for translation to English for all to be revealed.
Hope this helps
Roy

https://www.mabuchi-motor.com/product/knowledge/classification/designations.html

Hi Jumpugly, I'm watching your progress, beautiful hull.

Sorry if I didn't give you advice on choosing the motors, but my philosophy could leave you perplexed (apart from the fact that I have little experience in RC model boating).

I have many brushed electric motors but I don't know the characteristics of almost all of them because I got them by dismantling other devices, I barely know the voltage.
I bought a few.

On the choice between brushed and brushless I have always preferred brushed for economic and practical reasons. However I have nothing against brushless, on the contrary.
The only real drawback of brushed motors is the wear of the electric brushes. This must be taken into account in general, but in my case I think I will die before the brushes, because I sail very little.
The higher cost of a brushed motor also means the higher cost of the ESC.

For realistic navigation I am not suited to give you advice because I always choose much more powerful motors than necessary.
My idea is this: to navigate at realistic speed (for example to make a demonstration video) I go to minimum. However I have always liked the possibility of having enough power in case of need. For those who navigate in small club lakes this need does not exist.

I prefer the direct connection to the propeller shaft without a gear reducer, only for construction simplicity and reduction of weight and bulk. Those who do not have space and weight problems are right to use mechanical gear reducers.

For batteries I have always preferred those with the worst characteristics, that is, lead batteries of the VRLA family of the AGM type, only because they are the cheapest.
I had considered replacing them with NiMH batteries in case I needed to lighten the ship and recover weight, but there was no need.
Even if they are the best I do not like LiPOs so for ships I have always avoided them.

I read the messages of this nice topic a bit quickly because I was behind but I basically agree with ToraDog's opinions.

Thanks Cash.
I sit corrected😔
I must admit I had an uncomfortable feeling in my gut that, not having your experience of RC cars (let alone racing), I might have got that bassackwards🤔
My acquisition of the 540s and 550s with various turns is my first experiment in that area.
Given your qualified info I expect that I shall end up with the 40s in the destroyer and the 80s in Graf Spee and Belfast which are much heavier, being double hulled plastic.
I'm interested to find out what the performance difference between the 540s and 550s with the same turn number will be.
Thanks again👍
Cheers, Doug😎
PS Ref Gluper Sue 😁 I like the Deluxe Materials range, which I can get in Germany via Krick.
They have a good range of consistencies and setting times (fiddle time).
I wipe the nozzle with a non-linting cloth before closing. Only had trouble with their 'Rocket' version which goes off almost instantly😮

Hey Cash!
Managed to get some Pacer Zap on Amazon...and hit a store near the submarine base in New London for more.

As for Bob Smith, he's is pretty much the "King of CA," and his stuff is equal Pacer in every way. Most hobby stores that have their "name" printed on the CA bottles (like they actually manufacture it! 😉) is actually Bob Smith product through a license with him.
One store owner told me that you have to sign a 600 bottle contract with good old Bob for him to send his stuff along with YOUR store name on it!
Sheesh! Capitalism at its best or worst. Depending on your point of view. Btw: was not happy with Gorilla CA, but in a pinch it's better than the Titebond crap at the Depot.
😂

Speaking of New London...the sub museum is AWESOME and it's Free!!! Plus you get to go on the NAUTILUS!!!!!!!

Hey Jump? Forgot to add the the Scout’s coming along nicely…like the hot rudders of old would say, “she’s Bitchin’!”
Cash

Jump? Go to Amazon. I hate to say it but the have ok prices on Bob Smith CA, and I’ve started using another they carry called Starbond. Both glues work well. If you’re anywhere near a Hobby-Lobby, their house brand CA works well too, much better than most of the “super glue” you see at Lowe’s, Home Depot, etc. One exception I’ve found is Gorilla Glue CA. Not the best, but for the price their medium CA works pretty good.
Cash

Doug, not trying to be a wise guy, but in brushed motors more turns equal more torque. A 27 turn 540 motor is considered a “stock” motor in RC racing, a 23 turn with a non adjustable (for timing) end bell is a “hot stock” motor. Usually you’ll see modifieds with lower turns and sometimes different gauge windings, I:e 20 turn single, 15 turn double, etc. Most brushed crawler motors start at 27 turns and go up to 65-85 turns at most. That’s on the 540 motors, the longer can 550 motors are wound a little different but the basic principle still applies.
Cash

Thanks for sharing Doug. 😉
The Destroyer’s life has been a good one! She is a true survivor and an heirloom now.
The motor mentions have been a help as I opted to try a 35T 540 to push the freighter around at a speeds i can manage on the lake. My Lumba Lumba has an 80T 540 that looks nicely scale to me. The lower torque motor in the Scout is still very TBD.

BTW: My main memory of Glow fuel is a hand full of prop cuts from an old Cox control line Stuka! The good old days! 🤣

Bin there dun that Hhager🤔
Maybe one day I'll get around to using it in my modified Simprop Zaunkönig (=Wren).
A small double-decker which I've modified by doubling the span of the top plane.😁
Originally designed to fly with an 045/047 glowplug sometime I'll get around to fitting a brushless E motor. Have no idea what size though!!!
What am I gonna do with a gallon of Glo fuel????
Cheers, Doug😎

"Doug what's in the destroyer?!"
Sorry Jump🤔missed your query!
The first incarnation of HMS Hotspur I built in 1966, age 15.
She was 'scaled up to 1:72 from a 1:600 Airfix model.
Using Dad's 6" steel ruler, a plastic micrometer (!) and a slide rule. Remember those??
The only example of model boat building I had before me was the Sea Scout that Dad was building around the same time. So I'm since then the proud possessor of presumably the only hard chine destroyer in existence😁
She was all balsa, keel and formers 1/4", hull sheeting 1/32" 😮, decks 1/8", superstructure 1/16" sheet reinforced in the corners with 1/8" square.
She was free running back then. RC on my pocket money in '66?!😂🤣
She was driven by two tiny Mabuchi motors, the ones with the blue cans and built in mounts.
Power was from an Eveready 6V 'Lantern' dry battery.
Sponsored by Granny and Grandad. Bless their souls.
She was so light that she went like stink and I had to dash round the pond to stop her smashing her bow in on the stone wall of the boat pond in Radnor Park, Folkestone, Kent England. (My home town😉).

Jump on twenty years (No pun intended Jump😁).
Just before moving to Munich in Sept '85 I bought a Sanwa RC set on special offer from the AA (Automobile Association of which I was a member.) Still have it and it still woiks perfectly😀
Back then there were still 3 or 4 decent model shops in Munich (as opposed to the toy and RTR shops of today) where I acquired two 'bog standard' Mabuchi 540 motors driving 40mm screws.
SO FINALLY YOU GET THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION AS ABOVE JUMP😁
Don't ask me for the specs coz I have no idea. 540 was 540 back then 'take it or leave it'🙄
The ESC was from HITEC. A ca 2" square alu box with a T03 type power transistor bolted on top and a relay for reversing. Remember those? I still have it and it still works!

Also a 2.2kg SLA accu. The weight of which forced me to increase the freeboard of the ship.
This I did with 1mm ply hull sheeting and I rebuilt the superstructure with 0.5mm ply at the same time.
Result was a ship which at 'All Ahead Flank' made all the RTR so called Speed Boats on the pond look damn silly.
Much to my delight and their proud owners chagrin. Some left in disgust with long faces😁🤣
Others stayed to ask how I had done that or 'Where can I buy one of those mister?'.

Hotspur has been in the 'Reserve Fleet' awaiting refit since 2004.🙄
I now have pairs of 540 and 550 motors of 40 and 80 turns to try out in her.
Whichever are fastest will go into Hotspur, original 36knots, and the slowest into my Graf Spee, original 28knots. Graf Spee came with two 540 size motors of miserable performance.
Pics show Hotspur 'as built' underway in 1966 on Sea Trials' in Radnor Park.
Sorry about the quality, I only had a Kodak 127 Box camera back then😌
Current status - see pics 3 and 4 and below.

For your single screw ship Jump I think you'd be better off with fewer turns, = more torque, which you will need to get that big ship moving. She wasn't designed for speed probably max ca 18knots so 80 turns might be too many. Use SLAs for both power and ballast, the ship wasn't a sprinter. Scale prop probably 45 or 50mm? Possibly larger, from what I have seen being built in South Korean shipyards😮
Cheers, Doug😎
PS I swear by Hobbywing Quicrun series of ESCs, and not because they cause problems😁😉
On the contrary, I have standardised on their 16BL30 for brushless up to 30A, and the 1060 for brushed up to 60A. Not that I need 60A, coz I don't build racers, but it's nice to have some reserve capacity😉Been using them for 7 years or so and not a whiff of trouble or overheating.
Saw a discount offer a few years ago so now have a modest 'yard stock'.😊

One at keast mistake I had was an Esc that had no reverse. It was for aircraft ship went fine but not backwards when I tested it. Scout looks great

Aw heck! Don't mess about BUY THE DAMN STORE Jump👍

😎

Jumpugly - with the size of that boat, don't bother buying from a store - just go and buy the manufacturers themselves - you are going to need a heck of a lot!!

In a first for me, but I RAN OUT OF GLUE after the upper bow sections were applied. Sheesh!
To add insult to injury I won't go to my usual hobby store to re-supply due to the political dust up I had there (last Fall) with a group of patrons that were not there for models, balsa, and glue, but for other reasons.
I hope someday I can go back, but it's not likely...bummer.

Commodore!
Thanks so much, I will get on that Toot-sweet!
👍

I like Mtronics viper speed controls. The ones I have are designed for brushed motors, some can use Lipo batteries most cannot. I understand brushed motors but brushless motors are not clear to me. Brushless specs talk about rpm and volts but not torque.The heavier a boat is the more power is required for the prop to move it through the water.
I could see the Scout powered by an 850 size motor. You can buy ‘em on eBay for just a few dollars

Michel! I swiped one of my wife's rolling pins! I used just the other day. Boiling water and the rolling pin, works every time!
Or then again, you can go Maine "old-style" and build this huge steam barrel out in the back yard like the Friendship Sloop guys!!!

😂😉

Yow Rob!!!!!! That is a fantastic build!!!!! The detail work is an inspiration! Thanks for posting this!
👍😊

I received this American Scout model from the grandson of a retired merchant ship captain who built it, then passed away. It needs some TLC that I've slowly been giving it, but every glue joint needs re-gluing, so it's a laborious, long-time restoration project. I'm inspired now to complete it. Thanks!

Hello JumpUgly!
I have exactly the same experience with 2mm thick plywood parts (railings). I stole my wife's kettle to steam the parts to make them bendable.
Had to use the milk jug to keep them in shape. .
It had exactly the right diameter.
After painting, I had to steam them again and steal the milk jug again under my wife's protest...
I had my hair cut into a brush cut so I wouldn't get a parting from the rolling pin.... 🤣🤣🤣
In the meantime, peace has returned.
Bb Michel-C.

Fascinating stuff guys, and as always, a learning experience.
I love this site!
👍😊

Right now I have a complete Kyosho tub Nicad set-up with all electronics that I salvaged from another old Viper wreck. I still have to figure out my prop dimensions (4 blade maybe for a more scale look out of the water) and my rudder control layout using what I have on hand. Considering the length of the hull, I may use some lengthy steel bar stock for ballast.

However, we are talking a boat that may weigh upwards of 10 pounds when done. My luck with "brushed" motors has always been a happy one so I am leaning in that direction.
Just not sure if my extra 80T 540 that i have sitting in my stash will be adequate.
🤔

So I will continue with planking this slab-sided monster in the meantime. I tell you, trying to wet and twist 28" x 4" sheets of 1/8" thick balsa is never as easy as I think. But, I kept the cursing to a minimum. Fore and Aft will be of a more manageable strip variety.
😂

Roy - I use brushless non-sensored out runners in my Robbe police boat and they are controllable at very low revs. They are just cheap ones from Hobby King, as are the ESCs.

I run model boats with both brushed and brushless motors, and have found that the current consumed by a brushless is significantly less than that consumed by a brushed motor for a given level of performance.
I am also a little wary of Lipo batteries, but have been using them for about a year in R/C crawlers without any issues at all.
Brushless motors are unconcerned by the chemistry of the battery that powers them, my brushless boats are perfectly happy with NiMH batteries. The only reason I haven't yet swapped them over to Lipos is that I'd need to add more lead to bring the boats back to the water line with the lighter batteries.
Alternatively, you can use bigger (as in greater capacity) Lipos as a direct replacement for NiMH or lead acid batteries. That is probably the route I will take when my NiMH batteries begin to get too old to hold charge. Having said that, none of my NiMHs are less than five years old and are all used regularly.

Roycv,
I really have little experience with brushless motors, except the few in the planes that I fly (or try to). All of my ships run brushed motors because 10 they cost less, 2) the ESC's cost less, 3) I need the ballast weight and have the room to fit SLA's in, and lastly because I do not have the high current draws of most brushless motors.
All that said, I have seen quite a few models successfully run bushless at low rpms.
Lastly, I have a lot of respect for LIPO's and the damage they can do in a very short period of time.....😆

Hi Tora' do you find that the slow speed on brushless motors is a bit errratic compared to the brushed ones?
It is not noticeable if geared down, my info goes back to some bought 10 years back, have things changed?

For low power but a big Prop, I use high voltage motors (cheap) around 24 volts but on a 7.2 volt battery. You can watch the prop rotate in the water.
Roy

I agree, especially about SLA batteries, but they have the additional benefit of doubling as ballast as well as an economic power source. In order to get the most benefit from them, they really should be matched to the motor.
My PM comment to Jumpugly was an offer of a motor, not so much a private conversation about motors.
Cheers All😀

Hi all, just checking through the theads and looking at brushed motors. I suggest not to use car motors to drive props. Car motors have armatures wound to give big starting torque, usually fewer turns and take more current.
Boat motors have 25 - 35 turns on the armature as you want the power to increase as the voltage increases.

As far as batteries go although the SLA battery looks a more economical buy they do not have the watt/hour content of the NiMh or LiPo batteries.

The reason is that the SLA batteries are rated on a 20 hour discharge rate whereas the others are rated at the 5 hour rate. If you do some arithmetic you can see why.

I query the offer of a PM to talk about brushless motors as we all like to either learn (like me) or get involved, which is what the forum is about.

Regards
Roy

Your Scout is 1/96 scale the Revell Harbour Tug is 1/106 or the Dumas Carol Moran in 1/72 there are some off brand kits too.

Thank you Chum! What a beautiful fleet you have there, all expertly built. I can only hope this old freighter will come out as well.
No worries I’m not shy so when I get in a bind, I’ll come running.
😉

Jump, if you are considering a tug for your next build here are some of mine of various sizes & shapes to spark your interest. If you start a build I’d be happy to offer assistance.

After you finish your Scout, I think a Harbour Tug in the same scale would look really cool, groovy, slick, awesome 🤩

Happy New Year Commodore!
Yessir, it was a lucky find and although the box was in tatters everything seems to be there.
And yes, the eyelet portholes will have to go. Unless I can find something a bit more to scale at the local fabric store.
LOL!
I am confident I can cheat in a mountain of HO scale railings and will try my best To figure the deck layout and planking.
Be that as it may I will definitely be sourcing out as many 1:100 scale fittings I can find etc. The trick being the research. This particular C-2 freighter/cargo ship was designated an S-AJ5, which meant "No Passengers," but not sure how that affected the overall layout.

More studying to do, but will hold on the nitty-gritty untill after the hull is planked! More CA is on order!

😉

Congratulations Jumpugly, that American scout kit ius a real score. It will take some time build it. If I remember right it has lots of rigging and about a mile of railings. Portholes were from shoelace eyelets, I suspect you can do something better. In fact, you likely do something better with a lot of the parts, Sterling fittings were all white metal and not the best. Nowadays you can get computer printed stuff which is much better. similar. You don't have to use the decking, which I believe was some prescored wood. You can do better decking from individual strips(I know that would take some time)

I have to modify everything I build, because parts come in a kit that doesn't mean you have to use them. I would like to see if it could be transformed to a Liberty ship or something similar,. Do the plans show a radio control with vacuum tubes? I remember Dumas kits did, Sterling models was in Philadelphia which is near where I live. They have been gone a long time It is nice to see the legacy lives on.

Remembering back when I built my Scout, Dumas Pittman were about the only hobby motors available. The Dumas gearbox was terribly noisy. I would suggest going with a 12volt system, simply because it gives more options, in my deluded opinion, for powering accessories, ie, lights smoke sound, ect.
IF you can find one, and I might know someone with one for sale, a Johnson 970 motor would work great for you. It has enough torque to use without a gearbox, has moderate(5000) rpm, and draws very little amps at stall. Under normal use, I get a whole day running.
PM me.😊

Hi Jump!! Build's looking great. As far as motors you have some options, depending on what size prop and the total weight. I use a Zippkits 650KV outrunner in my Taucher Wulf, she's ballasted to roughly 16 pounds, give or take a few ounces. Motor works well on a 2 cell lipo, comes back ambient or maybe a bit warmer, but not hot. That motor might be ok in your Scout, since I take it your probably gonna run a 6 volt gell cell. You can also find outrunners of the same diameter but longer at roughly the same KV, get a little mor torque. If I were to go brushed, I think a 65 or 80 turn crawler might work, or go to a 550 motor with a gearbox.
Jump, if you're not used to brushless motors and decide to go that route, PM me with any questions you have, especially before making a purchase. I'll help in any way I can, plus there's a lot of guys on this board that can help you out I'll wager.
Cash

Hey gang. First of all, thanks for the encouraging words and support!

I am VERY open to suggestions as to what motor to use on a boat this big: 55 inches (139cm) with at least 6 pounds (maybe?) of ballast, with a single screw, and still hold a scale speed.
I thought maybe an 80T 540 like the Lumba Lumba would be good. All I have lying about the shop are two spare Kyosho LeMans motors swiped from wrecked Kyosho Vipers.
Any suggestions will be be greatly appreciated because when it comes to motors I am not the brightest bulb in the chandelier! And let's take into considering the dimensions of the boat; Doug what's in the destroyer?!
Thnx in advance!

I loved the Scout. She is a fun build. With the fittings now available, detailing will be a joy. I agree with Doug as well, there is plenty of room for SLA's to form ballast. Back in the day, they did not exist.
I think Sterling used the same dies for entire production runs. Missouri has the same delightful crushed edges.
Make sure that you plan for a smoker!
I am looking forward to your build.😊