Here is a few photos of the Sea Commander before I strip down. needs a sanding and repaint plus adjustments to the hatches.Tried her on the open water at Centurion (Pretoria) also shown is a few shots of the club.
Possibly one of the best venues in South Africa.
Within the complex is Centurion Society of Model Engineers and Centurion R/C truckers👍👍

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate incident Colin, hope your on the mend pal and back out on the water very soon.

Chris

Hi Colin and I am glad that both you and the boat are ok.It is great seeing the level of suppport that you are getting from the other guys - all the best with your recuperation.

I am just home after a week in hospital with Cellulitis of the lower leg. Came out of nowhere but the pain is intense. Frustrating part is the family gave me a hand made limited run bottle of whisky from Tasmania. Due to the drugs, I cannot drink it. Such is life.

Oh Colin glad you're a little better sounds like an adventure you could have done without though.
If you have to rest up for a while may be an ideal opportunity to have a look at your new project.... as long as you're able to remain seated though.
Take care and speedy recovery
Neil

What a timely dog walk and wonderful woman who helped you .Good to hear your doing a bit better .
Rick

Yes the boat was okay, I had placed it on the floor while trying to get my trolley through the gate to the lake. Caught my foot on a tree root in the path and went down and the trolley ran over me as well and ended up at the waters edge.
If I hadn't been in so much pain I would have been able to carry on.
Luckily a lady walking her dog found me and helped me back to my car, then retrieved my boat and trolley while I looked after her dog.
I then rang my wife and told her about my problem and she asked a neighbour if he could drive me back as I couldn't bend my leg, I managed to get onto the back seat and sat across it.
Had to wait about half an hour till his wife dropped him off, then he took me home , my wife had already asked another neighbour who is a nursing sister at the hospital A and E to check me over. Said it was a severe strain and bruised, but she managed to get me an x-ray appointment for this Thursday just for reassurance. And she has looked in each day after work.
So all in all I am a very lucky chap. I have sent a bunch of flowers with a box of chocolates to the lady who rescued me and my boat.
Cheers Colin.

Re - 'was the boat alright"? Had to laugh at that Nerys😂 About 15 or so years ago I was involved in a traffic accident, I had stopped fast to avoid hitting an Asian driver who did the 'slam on the brakes, indicate and turn into a drivevay in .5 seconds maneuver'. Luckily I had been watching this moron playing with his hair in the mirror and other non safe driving activities, so was keeping back from him a good distance. Problem was, just as I stopped,( I was in a 1990 Toyota Hiace) a guy in a fully loaded new Transit (the large one) who hadn't seen me, rammed me up the date at about 55kph. I was instantly accelerated to that speed and sailed off down the hill for 60m, out like a light (luckily the van was in gear and went straight and stopped by itself, and didn't cross to the opposing traffic).

Don't know how long I was asleep but woke up looking at the roof (seat was bent back 45deg and headrest bars were bent 10deg). Figured that out after a bit and tried to back up to the Transit (which had the whole front hanging off) but thought the mirrors had been knocked off in the crash (brain damage😁) realized later they had folded back due to the G force on acceleration.

A while later I rang the boss and told him we would need a new van, and all he was worried about was the van. Said I'd call him back as the cops had arrived, but about 10 mins later he rang me and said "sorry, I forgot to ask if you were ok" 😀 Apparently it was the other guys at work who reminded him. He was a major ignorant tosser normally so he had an excuse😁
JB

Hi Colin - sorry to hear about the fall . Hope you will be mended soon - understand how you felt about the boat - we forget that we don't mend easily anymore - and that our models can usually be mended - much tougher than aircraft .
We all seem have problems at this age - one is that things simply drop out of my left hand without realising I have let go ! Also have times when balance is lost - fortunately not when holding anything delicate up to now - contrary to the advice - glad to not fall on my rear - no padding left - now understand why my father complained - must be hereditary !

Hi Martin, it's not the hobby that is dangerous but it's just me.
Cheers Colin.

Thank you all for your sympathy, I have been told by my wife to look for safer sailing venues or give up.
So I will have to look into this as I'm not giving up because my legs don't like it.
Cheers Colin.

Morning Colin.
Sorry to hear of your tumble.
Hope you will soon be on the mend.
Keep smiling.
Regards Bill

Hi Colin,
Our hobby is not suppose to a dangerous hobby, It is suppose to be a quiet and relaxing one.

So maybe the relaxing part is sat in a chair with your leg up resting.LOL!!

Hope it gets a lot better soon so that you can continue with the Sea Commanders test run.

Martin555.

Hi Colin,
Sorry to hear of your accident. Hope everything comes right soon.
My Sea Commander will be at the pond next Sunday. Want to see how it runs, I have leak tested in the swimming pool but want to see it run on water before I strip it down for re painting etc.
Will try and get photos next weekend.👍👍

Hi Colin,

Terribly sorry to hear that you have had an accident, though I must admit when I read the first post my immediate reaction, 'was the boat alright?'. Anyway, I really am sorry for you and apart from coping with everything hope you get well soon and there are no long term effects

I've been a bit rough myself the last couple of days, but that's all to do with the dialysis.

Look after yourself,

Nerys

Thanks for your sympathy JB.
2 years ago I had a new left knee, but my hips started playing up.
Tripped on a tree root, fell and twisted my good knee, so back on crutches, got to go for xray on Thursday coming but local nurse thinks its just a bad strain. The swelling has almost gone but not the pain.
Never mind the wife is an angel and walks my dog twice a day and puts up with my wings.
Cheers Colin.

Fall on your but and you have padding fall on your knee and you can't move.
Hope you get better soon.
Rick

Take it easy Colin, lucky you didn't go for a test run instead of the boat! Hope the knee comes right soon. I have a dicky knee myself which makes kneeling down a mission, (knelt on a large stone a few years back and damaged a tendon, and now have a large lump in the front of my knee) so I feel your pain☹️
JB

Hi guys and gals.
Silly me tried to take the Sea Commander for a test run on Thursday, I slipped and fell damaging my good knee, I had to ring for help to get home with my boat, needed someone to drive my car as well because I couldn't bend my leg to drive.
Luckily the boat is okay, only my d****d knee, but I'm not able to walk on it yet. If I can get to my car I can drive with my left foot, good job its automatic.
So while I am stuck indoors I will try to sort out my new project, the norstar fire tender.
Cheers Colin.

I know its been a long time since my last post, but life got in the way.
Well thanks to another loyal member who offered to help bysending me some dxf files for the glazing and frames.
The factory I used to work for is laser cutting them for me, so hopefully I'll be able to finish it soon.
Also I found that I had fitted a left hand prop and I need to change it for a right hand.
I cleaned and lubricated the taycol and propshaft and allowed to run to ceck the water cooling for the esc. After each 10 minutes I changed direction and altered the speed. The motor now runs quite smoothly right down to 30rpm in water.
After the weekend I hope to do a proper sea trial to check balance and if she's gonna come up on the plane. Got to be careful as I'll be doing it alone, no one available to help.
If my canal has a weed free area I may try that as I can get my car to the slipway.
Watch for new updates next week, cheers Colin.

I didn't dare to say that. Has rank got privileges?

It does bring certain advantages with it Petty Officer😉
😎

Going back to battery life....not having one myself I did a little web research.
Salient facts
1. Many folk don't know exactly what sort of battery they have. Don't assume that you have got it right. Check.
2. Gel batteries are safest in confined environments and funny angles.
3. You don't get any benefit for free, there is always a tradeoff.
4. Gel batteries are the poorest battery technology for fast discharge. Eg a battery rated 7Ah discharged at 7A should last 1 hour? Wrong. Reckon on about 35 minutes at best.
5. Gel batteries need careful and proper charging. If your charger is the wrong type or has a sensing or timer fault you will get reduced battery charge, faster sulphation etc all resulting in shorter run time, end result eventually a dead battery.
6. As suggested earlier, if you have a constant voltage charger, 13.6V is the next best simple charger. That is a very slow charge technique; wait until the charge current has been stable and very low for 12 hours minimum, but then you can leave it trickling for a long time.
7. If you want 7Ah equivalent performance to a gel battery you will get very near using a 12V 3 cell LiPo rated 4.4Ah. Do not trust any cell claiming more than 3Ah or so such as Chinese claiming 9900mAh . I can buy six Sony VCT4 cells 3x 2x2.2Ah =13.2V 4.4Ah for 18 pounds, but doubtless one can buy a battery pack. At 7A Lithium will be very happy. The Fleet Admiral would correctly insist on a 15A or less fuse. Due to the superior discharge characteristics the Lithium will give rather better performance overall, finishing at 9.3V or so. Gel ratings reckon on full discharge at 9.2, but voltage dips sensed by an ESC may trip you out earlier. Its the end point that really matters in giving those last few minutes.

I reckon that's it's a pound to a pinch of proverbial that's it's a reversing relay Jonathan.
But then, you knew that all along didn't you🙄 you naughty boy😉
Cheers, Doug 😎

Without knowing the ESC number I can't answer that!
But there are 2 major possibilities.
1. A crossover reversing switch. That eliminates 3 out of 4 switching elements and can reduce losses. Relay would be rated near or above ESC rating. If above 20A it would be big. Can incorporate a resistor so as to allow less power in reverse.
2. A device to ensure all is well before enabling the Switching devices to start up.
Could be in the main power line and double up as an On switch. Again, fairly big, but smaller than in first option because it only needs one contact.
Other possibilities exist but need a mind more perverted than mine...

SC,

What does the relay do in my ESC?

Regards
Jonathan

Gentlemen, you illustrate exactly why I built my own first ESC (ignorance and mistrust of purchased products,) and partly why I then continued with my Tug dual ESC blog. Advert over...but in a few blogs time I will be covering H bridges, which are present in every ESC and may, I repeat may, be a real source of some of your problems.
With no disrespect intended, you don't really know what, if anything, is wrong.
I can say that battery specifications and tests can be horribly misleading. In particular, battery voltage cannot be interpreted with a DVM. In my testing I have seen battery voltage, on NiMh at 7.2V nominal, dip and recover by over 500mV in a single 3msecond cycle while drawing only 3A. That is more than enough to trigger under voltage trips rather earlier than expected, and I'm sure that other technologies or poorer state of charge would give even worse figures. Figures given by marketing men are totally worthless, and I understand that Chinese batteries can be only 10℅ of what is promised.
Going back to H bridges, several aspects of the design are critical. In particular, if the design allows even momentary "shoot through" - google that- you will get poor runtime at best and early under voltage tripping as a certainty. Higher voltages make that a higher possibility, again depending on any short cuts in the design. The ESC numbers you mention only seem to have options for up to 9 cells, which means absolute max running at start of around 12.6V and rapidly decaying on a few seconds to 12.2 and below.?? But your 12V batteries will start at 14.4 and should not be run below 8V, so a 5V drop out is extremely low, the battery is over discharged by then. If you could select the 9 cell option, and if I was designing the ESC I'd be putting dropout at around 7.5V and hope for recovery to 9V to allow a limp home mode.
What is there to do?
Testing battery discharge time at a load nearly equal to the motor load is a first step only. A stack of light bulbs is easy and convenient, although a purist will argue. That will confirm that the battery is basically good or bad. You just time how long it takes for volts to drop below 1.1V/cell NiMhl (1.5 for lead acid, 3.3V for lithium) but do NOT flatten the battery much more than this or you may wreck it, especially lithiums.
5 mins after you start this test, take the light off measure the battery volts, put the light back and see how much the battery drops. That is a crude measure of battery internal impedance. You can repeat that test at any time during the discharge cycle. High battery impedance will always result in problems. For NiCd and NiMh battery holders with springs are an absolute no go because they will double the battery impedance. Strong clips may be OK for a small motor. So connections are critical. Soldering some materials needs care because you may get a poor joint even if mechanically it seems strong. Gold plating is a well known culprit. It starts OK and vibrates off.
The gold standard is the oscilloscope. You just set the boat going and look at the power supply. (Light motor loads can be misleading so pushing against the side of a tank is best)
All is revealed by this test, if you know how to interpret what you see.
In time, I'll be putting some pictures on my blog when I cover H bridges, and how to sleep at night.

Hi Peter and Chris, comparative times can be awkward to get right unless the setups are the same. As you know my refurbished commander has a taycol Supermarine. And a water-cooled New Rain 320 amp esc. And the 12v 7ah battery. Time running still unknown, I have done a wet bench test in a baby bath on 3/4 throttle and left running till in stopped, 72 minutes. Checked the battery voltage, dropped to 5.2 volts.
My other commander at present has an unknown motor, esc, but running on 6v sla ah? As its very old I charged for 72hrs on trickle and did the same tests, it ran for 28 minutes and the battery had dropped to 4.6v.
I hope to reconfigure it to use a 12v 7ah in the near future as I have plenty of them and they are cheap enough to replace.
Cheers Colin.

That is all very interesting.
My setup:
700 motor brushed
Battery:12v 4.5 aH Gel. (Brand new and only used the once)
ESC Brushed Hobbywing WP1060 RTR - same as yours.

At the end of the day it appears our setups are quite similar - you might be right and the battery needs some use. Would be very happy to get that sort of time.

Hoping to get onto the water tomorrow, however the weather at the moment may say otherwise. Rain plus I believe that we are getting some of the arctic blast so it might be a good day in front of the heater - not my ideal.

I will put something more positive up hopefully.

Hi Peter,
Had a couple of further thoughts post my own battery woes previously. ESC setting? Battery conditioning?
Long story below - apologies!
Using my Huntsman as an example, 1/16 scale and very light weight - but she would stop only after 10-12 minutes run time. Its is a brushed set up, then using a Hobby-wing(?) WP1040 ESC and at the time a 12 turn 540 motor and 7.2 v NiMh batteries - nothing overly complex which suits my electronic IQ!
My first thought was too high speed motor drawing way to much juice - which I scaled back to a 35turn but still had short runs but scale speed at least.
I would run my multimeter across the battery post returning to shore and it would show a surface charge of >6.2v....I was a little confused. I tried several of my batteries and similar results...so I did a boat bench test to check the voltage and amp draw - amps were good around 1.1 - 1.3amp full noise, voltage as required by the ESC depending on throttle position. However, as the battery declined and it approached 6v - it was goodnight. No go.
Turns out the ESC I had purchased - RTR kind - had a fault or incorrect set point for the low voltage protection. Being RTR it wasn't adjustable. It was meant to be a 5v trip, recoverable down to 4.5v by letting the throttle return to neutral. But I was a dead duck each time.
I procured the same brand but a WP1060 RTR - same trip specs - recommended by the hobby shop here and now I use these on all my boats - never missed a beat (so far) and run times are 40+ mins or longer depending on pauses and idle time. Voltage runs down to 5v as intended - solved for my case.
I also tend to deliberately run for only for 15 minutes or so, then rest the boat which allows the battery to recover, motor to cool etc - but if its a family day with my nieces driving my boats around then its run till they nearly stop but they each get good run times regardless.
With the battery - and I'm not sure of your set up - but I run on NiMh and all get some warmth post running. Do you notice any battery heat?
I have had a new but "problematic" battery which took several days of bench running on a test motor, recharging once cool, and repeating the cycle to condition it (if that's the right word). Might be helpful if you suspect a battery issue to give this a try?
My limited experience is the more consistently they get used the better and longer they perform (I have had a 7.2v 1700mah NiMh for over 20 years now - still as strong as ever).
Sorry for the long story - hope my past woes might help you (if you haven't already ruled these out that is). Good luck.
Cheers,
Chris
PS - not recommending any brands - just sharing what has worked for me.

Never too late Chris. I am a newbie to powered boats so I did get heavy on the throttle as well. That is more the time I would expect and hope that it was simply a combination of things that gave me a short time on the water. I actually took the boat out for 20 minutes to allow me to come last in a sailing race and then put it back in and it had regained another 5 minutes.

Better luck Sunday. (ps, wondering about the logistics of putting the motor into my Wee Nip. Cannot take a trick with it lately.)

Hi Peter, I have a Sea Commander running a 750 can "caldercraft"motor included in my kit. Running 7.2v ranging from 3600-5000mah I have typically seen 45-55 minutes of run time - speed dependent as I have a bit of a heavy throttle finger with this boat!!
Apologies if my reply is a little late.
kind regards,
Chris

Thanks for that - mine only got 15 minutes, but I may not have charged it properly. Weather permitting i will give it another try this weekend. I thought 15 minutes to be wrong. Plenty of offers from others with spare lipo batteries but connections different.

On the learning curve. Loooks like we are going into lockdown again - our borders are closing down again.........hopefully it will not affect what we are doing.

Hi Peterd.
Can't give you a time for the commander yet, but my other boats with the 12v 7ah batteries are as follows.
48 inch Tug weight with batteries and ballast 15.6 kgs running a 540 motor with 25 to 1 reduction box and 60mm prop gives 1 hour 15 mins.
60 inch pleasure cruiser with ballast and batteries weighs 13.8 kgs running an 850 motor direct to 65mm prop lasts 40 to 50 minutes.
I'll see what other setups are in my log.
Cheers Colin.

Good, i will definitely reconfigure my aerial. Tell me, how much time do you get out of your battery between charges? I realize it is larger than mine at 4.5ah with a 700 motor but interested in the comparisons.

Tks.

Interesting comments - as i mentioned earlier we all sail with our antannae fully enclosed, however we do not need that distance, only around 60-70 meters. It might be a good excuse for not getting around the top buoy easily - nothing to do with the lack of wind or the goose that trys to hog that buoy all the time. Worth a try.

All the best - we are up to 48 years in 6 months. Enjoy the day from Down Under.

Happy anniversary to you both hope you spent it together re furbing your latest project..

We thank you Nerys and Alice, Colin and Caroline.

Many congratulations Colin and Caroline on your anniversary.

Nerys and Alice

I love chili but sometimes it doesn't love me .LOL
Rick

Thanks for your anniversary wishes fellow boaters from Colin and Caroline.

Great Colin👍
OK, that settles it!
It's an electrically short end fed monopole, with a loading coil to create the correct 'effective length'.
Whatever the gobbledygook main thing is IT WOIKS to the owner's satisfaction😊
Now I'm 'ungery', so off to whip up a batch of my world famous tongue-bruising Chile 😋🔥
CU later, play nicely now!😉
😎

Happy anniversary .
Rick

Happy Anniversary to you and your wife Colin.
Have a nice relaxing day.

Martin555.

Have now fitted the reciever to the aft cabin roof, and fitted the aerial using the tube from a biro to hold it vertical,
I did the same tests as earlier and the results came out really good. I walked the length of the field 400yards and got good signal at the boat.
So I'm very happy with the outcome, that just leaves the glazing to complete.
Cheers Colin.

BRAVO ZULU that couple👍
Happy Anniversary 😊🎈🎁🎁🎈

Tried it inside the cabin and it worked up toabout 40 yards and then didn't react every time.
So I tried it outside the cabin.
This time was still getting a quick response at 400yards , so drilling a small hole in the roof.
Will fix in place and check the distance again, hopefully this will be good enough as I only need up to 200 yards for my local lake, and less for the club lake. And thats about as far as I am able to see the boat anyway.
Pictures and final results later.
Cheers Colin.
P.S. having lazy day with Caroline today as its our 42nd anniversary.

Yes, sorry. A vertical dipole as now suggested makes a lot of sense, being 2 x 1/4 waves sort of stuck together. And if vertical would be omnidirectional. Unusual but perfectly possible.
The use of coax may also be a sort of balun as well?

"But it remained unidirectional, which is what we want."
A typo SC?
Think you mean omnidirectional, which is what we want.
Uni... indicates 'one way'! Think unicorn, unicycle etc.
BTW: the 'crude' coil is designed to so that it's inductance cancels out the capacitive reactance of the rod. Thus providing a restive impedance to the transmitter/receiver or transmission line, which is much easier to match, to ensure maximum signal transfer and create standing waves on the antenna and minimum reflection at the interface. Either back into the TX on transmit or back into the antenna on receive. Low VSWR.😊
Cheers, Doug 😎

I'll post the results of my trials later, thanks again for the help.
Cheers Colin.

"A scalpel would confirm 😊"
Good one Jonathan👍 I was going to suggest investigative surgery as the next step as the 144mm length struck me as odd. Unless most of it is just the transmission line input.
I have used such miniature coax but it was not discernable in Colin's photo.

It could also be a centre loaded monopole, using the 'wet stuff' as a loose coupled ground plane. It would then act like a dipole.
Bon chance Colin👍
BTW The RX in my Sea Scout is a Turnigy i6 stuck on a shelf high up on the back wall of the cabin. It has two wire antennas ca 12cm. One runs vertically down the cabin wall, the other horizontally along the cabin roof. Works fine with my Turnigy clone TX as far as I can see across our big lake.🤓
Cheers, Doug 😎
PS The TX correspondingly also has two antennas (antennae?😐);
A vertical stub sticking out the top, and a horizontal wire in the carry handle.
The RX then uses the strongest signal it 'sees' on the two antennas - Antenna Diversity😊
I first had a suspicion that one wire was a monopole antenna and the other it's counterbalance, a simple ground plane. Hence the instructions insistence on fitting them at 90° to each other. May well be with some sets!

Thanks Jonathan, I have just had your theory confirmed by flysky.
And they also believe it should work inside the cabin as long as it can be located vertically.
At least that saves me drilling holes, so I will try it inside first.
I prefer not to change the boat too far from what my dad originally built in the 50's. As my main collection are all vintage boats and for show purposes I prefer to keep as built, as long as I can still use them when I want.
I don't fully understand the intricacies of the radio systems that I have, but as long as they work there's no problem.
Cheers Colin.