Jonathan,
I have not yet contacted krick regarding the programming as I wanted to sort wiring cables and confirm it was all correct first, think I might have to wait untill next week and hopfully be able to collect my wire from my postbox!

Hi Len,

I feel your frustration. I will digest what you have posted so I can come back upto speed with the latest info.

Did you find Krick customer support responsive?

Regards
Jonathan .

Jonathan,
regarding previous entry about graupner 3970,emailed Krick and just received a reply"With the module from Graunper you can switch a consumer on and off. The module is connected directly to the receiver and is not available. An alternative from us would be the Uno switch article number 67201 from us."
looked at comparision and found" the 8249 is designed to be used with the robbe/Futaba Multi switch"(see photos).am now wondering if I used wrong units (used them as recommended in build instructions and wiring plan)?
Regarding brainwave started transmitter and very quickly wished I had not as could not find switch settings"NOT A HAPPY CHAPPIE"😭😭😭😭
Am wondering if I was to reduce the number of channels, by putting all lighting together and removing the servos for the vertical movements of the monitors, would it make it easier? but it still means setting the transmitter up!
Because of the hassle, I am seriously considering having a break from the Dusseldorf and making another model before having another go

I have been checking and cofimed all wiring is correct and no sign or smell of cooking except for the common earth, which have to sort). unable to upgrade wire to swg22 as our village is in lockdown,we can go anywhere in arboleas but not to ALBOX 7km(where my mail is delivered) away as is outside provence unless I try to play hide and seek with the guarda! I have found 1 servo,pump as well as the 8249 reversing module no longer work and will have to replace!
question, is the graupner3970 Switching module multi-function SXH the same as the ro8249reversing module f. multiswitch? if so might go that way and decide and order the next model i want to cut down delivery charges
Might have had a brain wave regarding switches after reading notes several times, could it be that you select the channel the drag it down to the apropriate switch and "set"it?

Jonathon & ToraDog
have been checking the wiring and replacing some(found by chance the wires I got were SWG-26 and have ordered some SWG-22 (think it is better and withstand higher power) so will replace some wires when it arrives.
have checked the circuits, both before and after the block connecter and apart from 1 Servo all OK.
Now to set up receiver to switch module patch cable OK, 3 polarity inversion cables made up and checked(will upgrade when new wire arrives),so have to sort power supplies and where their wires go? then back to setting up the mc-26!
Len

Jonathan
Charged up batteries yesterday for an hour, and again this morning whilst making up test cables cut the common earth wire thus removing all wires and plugs to the switch module except the patch cable and am replugging the receiver checking each one before and after(using channels 1 and 2 which are pre-set on boat setup) to check my wiring so when it gets to the muti channel module any errors have to be in the programming .
Incidentally before the above, I plugged in the new( rewired with the matching cables)"polarity inversion modules" and tested them all seems ok,Stopped to see F1, brought back some memories(both good and bad) when the car brewed up, fortunately driver got away with it, not a good sight if they dont!
slowly progressing!
Len

Hi Len,

Will read through and respond later.

Suggest mini steps - for now forget external power supply - stick with receiver battery whilst getting used to programming radio.

So pick your channel and then use the centre pin as the positive rail and either of the 2 outer pins as the negative and then see if they come live (using multimeter) when switched - of course there is the minor issue of programming the radio

Logical way forward?

Jonathan.

Jonathan & ToraDog
Not sure I understand your wiring diagrams?
Page 7 of 3972 Manual (Ihave a later version which shows different dimensions and weight but comments are the same) it says" through the suitable cabling of connection cable the functions can be powered by a single power source (I assume this is the feed from the receiver) or separately by different power sources". This intimates the 5 motors and the pump should have there own individual power supply, rather than my initial impression of page 11 "connection of a big function to channel 4A and the common earth" with a light for each ( I thought they were isolation switches),thoughts please ?
Switched on the transmitter and the wired up receiver(Power and patch cable only) and got no light on the receiver so am now charging up the batteries so will remove the common earth wire and start again tomorrow AM. F1 race at 3pm tomorrow (spanish time)
Len

Len and Jonathan,
I will try to scan the Robbe instructions as soon as I can. Unfortunately they are downstairs and I had a knee replacement this past Wednesday, so my mobility is limited. I will try to get my wife to hunt and peck.
If I recall correctly, I am still a bit foggy from meds, the pins on the module are arranged as such: center connected to Battery-, battery connected to the loads( pump, lights, ect), the "other" side of the load connected to the - or signal pin, in the same row of pins. I used servo pigtails to do my wiring. The - and the signal pin then referenced to a switch position on the Robbe transmitter module.
Please do not accept this as the last word until I get to scanning the instructions. Also, because Robbe used two different types of modules, they were powered and wired somewhat differently. I will send you both versions.
Jonathan(2)😛

Len,

Attached is a better instuction PDF - more subtle detail I think

My understanding is that the centre B pin on both columns X1 and X2 pin 1-8 is always unswitched positive (live) - it's the hard wired to the power line supplied via the receiver patch cable - you could validate this with a meter.

Indeed I would progress using your multi meter (inputs) as the device you wish to switch on and off to test things out and not blow anything else

For a small circuit (low current) you would be using the RX battery supply directly (no choice)

You would connect the device you want to switch (bulb/small motor) directly to the 3972 pin B + power and then either pin A or C to pick up a switched negative line

Note you can have 2 circuits per channel as 2 switched negative lines (A&C)

If you choose to use an external power supply (not the RX battery) then you DO NOT connect the positive line of the external supply to the 3972

To use an external power supply:
Connect the negative external power to pin A
Connect the device negative connection to pin C
Connect the positive from the external power supply directly to the device (NOT the 3972)

*** When using an external power supply, you have used pin A and C so you can only switch one device per channel

Please senser check this for accuracy and that my understaning is correct

I would progress with only one item plugged into the 3972!!

And the came the software configuration 😊

Regards
Jonathan .

Jonathan and Tora Dog,
I agree with Jonathan down to the multimeter and yes I do have one:
I understand about the 3972( I think that is the reason for the polarity inversion modules for use with the 8249 transistor pole reversing modules) your wiring sketch is very similar to the "connection of a big function to channel 4" except that they recommend a common earth, page 11 and it shows power in on X1-4c and negative X1-4A which I have done but not yet plugged in.
Tora Dog,
Thank you for your input it is appreciated and "many hands make light work"I was originally concerned about the 2 banks of sockets on the Graupner and was advised that the Robbe multiswitch 8369 was a two way switch and the Graupner 3972 uses a single switch with a common earth hence the second bank and the polarity inversion modules
Len

ToraDog,

Not at all - any info adds to the understanding. I played with the Robbe system a few years back and unfortunately my memory is not what it once was....

I now remember that the centre pin on the switch units is normally "unswitched positive" and live all the time whilst connected to a power supply.

The 2 outer pins are switched ground allowing/facilitating 2 switch circuits per channel

ToraDog - is that your understanding?

Still can't remember how you serve different voltages to different channels - indeed it's not obvious how you connect any battery directly to the Graupner unit as unlike the Robbe version their is no "battery" connection identified - the unit itself being powered I presume from the receiver patch lead....

Regards
Jonathan .

Jonathan,
If I may, and not trying to confuse you and bombero, but your last diagram is the same wiring arrangement that Robbe uses with their Multiplex system. The advantage to the user being that the Multiplex switch modules are thereby able to support different voltages, as required by the individual loads. By switching the loads thru the ground circuit, all the grounds become common, regardless to the number of battery cells, ie voltages, called for by the loads. This allows the module to support multiple voltage loads, within a given range.
I hope that I am helping and not just butting in here.

Hi Len,

Coming back to the subject afresh I decided to re-read the instructions before looking at your update.

Page 10 states "The module consumes so few current that you can connect it through the included patch cable directly to the multichannel output of the receiver"

Page 11 - the picture clearly shows the patch cable between the receiver and 16ch 3972 connected to slot X2 A9 B9 C9 (left hand column of pins labelled FS_Impuls)

I think we agree on the above?

Do you have a multi meter?

I would suggest that you don't plug anything into the multi switch right now and try to follow my thoughts...

I will try to validate my suggestion this weekend with the kit I have

This (3972)is a switch. It is a single pole switch so can only switch one line either positive or negative but not both. We are told that it switches the negative/ground line

So this would mean for each channel we make only 2 connections to the switch for each channel (an in and an out for want of better terminology)

This would mean that we insert the switch into the negative/ground line only (see attached image)

Pic to follow shortly

I did not understand your post 100% but hopefully my post may add to the joint understanding

Update - see later post which over-rides some of this text

Regards
Jonathan

Hi Len,

Spinning plates right now ( well if I am honest doing the house work! )- will have a look later and digest/comment on your findings

Pleased you are sticking with it - regardless of the frustration to date!

Regards
Jonathan

Jonathan,
got cable and plugs yesterday and have made up 3 polarity inversion modules and plugged them into the switch module (no power connected yet). this morning made up the 2 "connection of big function to channel 4" and plugged it into the switch module.
looking at it it seems the power in(x1-4c) is the same bank as the return on the inversion modules. Is this correct???
If yes I have found my previous big function plug was wired incorrectly(had power in on X1-4B) possible cause of cooking the 8249
Len

Jonathan,
Thank you for your help and advice!
You can see why I was “going round the bend “ but with your support am a lot calmer.
Before I email Krick (they have not replied to my last email asking questions) I am going to check the wiring and know some of the extension wires are white, red and black whist the items from krick have brown, red and orange wires. I am waiting (due Wednesday) for some cable and ¨plugs and sockets¨ so I can replace any w,r,bk wires and will be sure the wiring is correct (belts and braces).
If problem is not solved will consult with Krick (including a revised wiring plan) and hopefully they will reply this time. Would also send copy to Graupner (both Germany and USA) but emails are not getting through.
Len

Hi Len,

It appears that this has nothing to do with any software setting.

It looks like a hardware/cabling issue (sure you had deteremined this already!)

I think for now to resolve the hardware issue it's a case for Krick customer support

In the instructions for the "ploarity reversing" unit - it refers to "memory setting" which must be disabled.

The relates back to terminology on the Robbe mutli switch - the term "memory" can be substitued with "latching". In other words the Multi switch output into the Krick polarity reversing unit must not be latching but temporary switched (i.e It's only on whilst you are holding a non latching switch in the on position)...

Hope you get some good news from Krick HQ

Regards
Jonathan .

Jonathan,
Confirm patch cable connected from port 7 on receiver to port x2-9 on switch module, and plugs are correct for polarity inversion
Len

Len,

Re-reading the documentation it looks like the "patch cable" between the receiver and the multi switch unit should be plugged into X2 Slot 9 - top slot on the RHS column labelled FS-Impuls

Please check and confirm this for yourself .....

I would suggest that you only have one thing plugged into the multi switch at a time whilst working through these issues - perhaps the blue light would be a good option?

Crazy that X1 and X2 are not marked on the multi switch case

Update - I see from your hand written notes that you have used X2 slot 9 - is that correct..

Regards
Jonathan .

jonathan,
Yes aware of wiring hence three polarity inversion wires locations shown in the guide(one of the pictures shows)
pump has a relay module ro8442 (294) on wiring plan

ToraDog
spec
A module for switching the light signals of boats, trucks and aircraft with true authenticity. In the "Boats and vehicles" operating mode, models are controlled via the Nautic switching module; in the "Aircraft" operating mode via a proportional channel (e.g. slider) in the transmitter. The typical lights for the corresponding vehicles/aircraft/helicopters are already installed. Very good test results with the IFS system.
Specification
Power supply: 4.8 - 14 V
Bias current: approx. 25 mA
Switching outputs: 16
Steady current per output: 0.8 A, short-term max.: 1.2 A
Max. total current of all outputs: 6 A
Proportional inputs: 3
Servo outputs: 2
Suitable Nautic switching module Graupner Nautic-Expert module (no. 4108)
Robbe Multi-Switch 16 module (no. 8084)

bombero,
what is the current limits for the switch unit? The Robbe was limited to 1 amp total for all loads combined. The Krick unit is, I think, rated at 1 amp. I do not remember the voltage rating.

jonathan,
wondering if power is in wrong port on switch module(X1-5)
wiring in receiver as per wiring diagram and pictures show location one shows damage.
yes it was a 8248, damage at winch motor end( motor still runs). the multiplug (wiring to cabin) was disconnected so may have saved some of the others.
Len

Len one think to note on the Graupner No.3972 multi switch unit is that for both columns of pins the outer pin closest to the edge of the case is the negative pin.

So the plugs one one side will be the reverse orientation of the other side

Another way of looking at it it the orange lead should always be closest to the centre of the unit for both columns

I can see that there are no orientation guide like there are on some receivers so you can plug a lead in either way!!

Jonathan .

Hello Len,

Was it a Krick No.8249 you cooked?

If so where was it plugged into when the blue smoke got released?

Is it possible to post a pic of how(plug orientation) and where it was plugged in (power off of course) - and are the plugs shaped so they only plug in one way?

Do you have a relay unit which is intended for use with the pump?

PS now up to speed with the wiring diagram.

Will suggest the way forward once answers to questions above....

Regards
Jonathan

ToraDog
No it was controlling the anchor motor all the others seem OK

bombero,
No fireboat for me. I am a Navy guy. Two destroyers, a corvette, an icebreaker, an ARS and a tug. I will not be using the X9E on my subs though.
Regarding the Graupner, was your reversing unit for a servo? Is your switch unit intended to drive loads directly, ie lights, ect? On the Robbe units, the switch units are very specific as to what they can drive. They use switch units for loads and similar, but specific, units to drive servos. The two different units required different voltage supplies and were very specific in the way they were hooked up. I suspect that the Graupner unit(s) are similar.
Jonathan

G6SWJ,
I have just replugged the wires in the receiver and the switch module, switched it on and cooked a transistor reverse module. Checked the power through the supply wire and got 5.36v, can only assume faulty unit or wrong plugging but have a spare and will not do anything more until I hear from you.
Thank you again.🌤️
Len

ToraDog,
thank you for your imput, noticed you have the transmitter recommended for the Dusseldorf fire boat, are you going to build one or do you already have one?
Decided to give groupner another chance!

Let me get my head around the detail and I will come back to you.

Sure there is a way forward - hold the faith!

Regards
Jonathan .

G6SW,
Thank you for your support and advice, after a night’s sleep (tossing and turning) I think with your help will try to master the mc-26,
I enclose a copy of the wiring diagram supplied with the Dusseldorf boat, which was for a Futama F-14, 8-channel system with multiswitch (now replaced with the MC-26 with GR16 8-channel receiver and a 3972 16-channel switch module)
I have made up a patch cable three v cables (for reversing of motors in switch module) and a common earth cable see photos
Had wired up in the same order
Hope this is correct.
RECEIVER
The receiver has been bound, the motors, rudders and both servos for monitors (A) are working.
The blue flashing light is working permanently
SWITCH MODULE
Search light motor (178), radar motor (185) and lights (165 ,193) are on permanently, so switch module has been set( numbers are as per wiring plan)
This is my second model, the first was the tugboat JOFFRE operated by a SANWA dash SABRE (2stick,2channel) RC so a big step up on both model and controls,
Just got you message working on switches just being on/off unless you think otherwise
Len

Len,

Before you jump ship - it would be worth taking a step back.

You could find yourself in a worse position($$$) and still not having your desired outcome!!

Getting 16 channels of RC to your model is relatively easy - it's what you do with them once they exit the receiver that's key - specifcally what hardware does the receiver interface with.

This is where the Graupner Nautic multi switch unit scores big time compared to other solutions.

Map out what you need to control on the model and what type of control it needs (proportional stick or slider, switch on / off - momentary or latched).

We may be able to suggest a way forward once we understand your requirements...

Look forward to your update

Regards
Jonathan .

I'll second Jonathan here. The Taranis is easy to work with AND there are numerous videos on YouTube that show how, in detail, to accomplish various tasks. I am using the X9E which, while it is no longer in production, can be found for sale on various RC boards. It has numerous switched control inputs and, besides the two gimbaled channels, six additional proportional controls available for scale functions. Having telemetry available is an added, though not needed, benefit.
Being a confirmed Robbe F-14 user, I am blown away by this transmitter.
Jonathan.... the other one

Hi Len,

My catch phrase is "I've learnt most of my stuff by getting very stuck first"

I am currently working on a project that I had working a few years back - I am about 4 hours in and it's still not working - if I had written a note or two at the time .....

The most annoying aspect is I know what is wrong - I just can't get it to work.

The Graupner radio is a great piece of kit - it's just complex to get up and running.

If you really want to jump ship then the FrSky Taranis is a sure bet.

Happy to work with you to get the MC26 working...

If you map out what you need to control and with what (proportional, on/off) etc perhaps we can get this working.

I have got myself stuck with "tech" so many times - I am just very stubborn and will not be beaten - this can often lead to some long journeys...

Regards
Jonathan .

THANK YOU G6SWJ
Tried to follow your instructions proceeded to the next stage and got stuck again!
To ALL, I think the graupner mc 26 has worn me down to a bad mental level.Can anyone recommend a different transmitter that will deal with 16 channels and is easy to set up with clear and precise operating manual?

Hi Len,

"Am I missing something" - yes sort of but I would suggest that most users would be in the same boat (excuse the pun) 😊

When you go into the "Control Switch" screen it is expecting you to "move a desired control" - e.g. A CONTROL like a stick etc in fact anything apart from a SWITCH from the 2 banks of 12 switches

It is really obvious NOT

I have 2 Jeti radio's that are equally capable/complex - they are a breeze to use and program. The Taranis radio is also a very capable radio and relatively easy to use.

The Graupner radio I would suggest is a little cumbersome - this would not be a problem so much if the manual was user friendly

Regards
Jonathan .

Am I missing something?
Going onto "switch display" it shows which switches have been allocated (in my case 2,7,9,11and15 all preset by model basic settings). I then go to"Control switch" and select the line(assume C3 means channel3) enter set get message "move desired control adj" operate switch required, it should get an abbreviation of the control, press set. Nothing happens!
Had A mate look, he thinks the wiring is OK but still does not understand the switch problem either, hence this question 🔥
Bombero

Jonathan,
I have found and printed (nearly 300 pages) the manual for the mc-32,it should help me to understand the settings and how to complete the electrics. I think I have wired my dusseldorf correctly but now to work out which switches to use and attach them
Len🤞🤞

thanks, I am not waiting for the g-32,(may not be able to use it as have three different power supplies) in the process of restarting the settings from scratch, Just had the transmitter being unable to switch off ( disconnected power and restarted OK), got a mate coming Thursday so will replug the receiver and switch module and shorted the cables( got some of the solder seal connectors) hope to celebrate then, will keep you informed

Hi Bombero,

I think you will finds the MC26 & MC32 software are all but the same!

If the instructions have the same circuit diagram then it does not relate to the switch unit you have (No.3972) but the (No.4159).

If you look at the face of your mutli switch unit I think the "patch" cable will go in the top left connection marked "failsafe" or as highlighted in previous image X1 Slot 9

It is very likely that the multi 16 channel data is sent from the receiver (channel as configured 5 through 8) down the patch cable in 2 alternating blocks/frames of 8 channels each

You can test this all with the GR16 receiver - you don't need to wait for the GR32!!

Regards
Jonathan.

Hello Jonathan,
have compared the notes you sent against the ones I have, yours have more information( but may not be required for the mc-26(will have to look deeper),
the connection example is the same, but until my GR-32 receiver arrives I have a GR-16 which has 8 channels. The switch module shown is different to the one I have( no.3972 a 16 channel) is different and has 9 sockets each end, one marked "fail safe" and the other "fs inputs" not socket A and B ( I understand the signals instead of switching forward to opposite it is on or off to grd with the other end the same,but have to alter the wiring so both going to a common earth (red and black one side and white and black on the other, if using a reversible motor with a pole reversing module)
This was bought as a compete package as recommended by Krick for the Düsseldorf as the one in the build notes a Futaba is no longer available and the wiring plan in the notes is for the Futaba and has yet to be revised.
Now in the process if making the wires required to try again!
Len

Thank you Jonathan have printed them will study and compare with my instructions and reply to both messages after the F1 race!
For those who are having difficulty with Jonathans notes, I had difficulty on my windows machine, but fortunately it worked straight away on my apple.(not bragging but was a member of Albox computer club for 11 years hence the apple)

Arghh!!!

How do you upload images in sequence - it seems to chew the names even if A.jpg,B.jpg etc

Having re-read the PDF manual online the instructions are shocking - I can only presume they used some auto translate software.

I have a programming manual for the MC32 - letter format about 1 inch thick!

I have taken images of the "Multichannel" instuctions, clearly you will need to think of these in terms of MC26 offering but they might help fill some of the gaps especailly with regard to assigning control surfaces (Stick/switch/slider) and their travel limits

Sorry the PDF reads back to front - the last page comes first

Regards
Jonathan .

Hi - I have an MC32 - I don't use it much...

The MC26 is a later model and I believe will be a little different to how I descibe below but similar.

Basically you can expand 2 of the receiver output channels into multichannel outputs (4 or 8) and once configured in ther handset software plug a multi unit (switcher 4 or 8 channel two state on/off switch or 4 channel porportional )into those sockets

On the MC32 you have 2 "Multichannels" (MUTLIC1 & MULTIC2) that you can configure(point to) (C5,C6,C7 or C8) output on the receiver. You can further set each on these Multichannels to be either a 4 or 8 function multichannel

A Nautic switching unit for the MC32 may have the number '16' in it's name but it's an 8 channel switch to confuse things

So using one of the 2 Mutlichannel software configurations - (MULTIC1) in the handset software, set to say Channel 5 you would plug the Nautic Multiswitch "Empflanger" socket into the receiver channel slot 5

This means the modified (Multichannel data stream) output of receiver channel 5 now goes into the Nautic Switch and we can switch multiple circuits.

The mapping of exactly what physical stick/switch/slider or pot to each of the Multichannels is performed in the handset software

Reading between the lines a new variant of the Nautic 16 switch does allow you to switch 16 circuits. I believe it has 2 inputs (A&B) - these would I think be 2 x 8 channels inputs

So....

MULTIC1 8 channels - Mapped to Channel 5 - Plugged into Socket A
MULTIC2 8 channels - Mapped to Channel 6 - Plugged into Socket B

Would give you 16 switched channels.

Do you have 2 sockets on your switch unit marked A&B?

Update - not quite as explained - update to follow shortly!!

Here is a link for the multiswitch manual

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1624769/Graupner-3972.html?page=12#manual
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

UPDATE
Use patch cable between defined receiver channel (C5?) and X1 Slot 9 - it's possible the data for all 16 channels goes into this one slot rather than 2 slots on Nautic Switch!! or they would have provided you 2 patch cables!



Regards
Jonathan .

Have downloaded manual for transmitter, receiver and module ,but still find it confusing but will persevere, not electronically minded!
Big jump up from a sabré 2 channel transmitter

bombero,
I stand corrected! This is certainly not like the analog multiplexed systems. Much more like Open TX. I did find the manual here if it is of any help.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1740165/Graupner-Mc-26.html#manual

Switch unit built into transmitter, look up Graupner mc -26, switches everywhere

bombero,
Yes, but the system works by using a switch unit added to the transmitter, which then controls the module installed between the receiver and the loads, ie, lights motors ect. I am pretty sure that you need both units if you are using a multiplexing system which divides one channel into multiple functions.