Beautiful Plane JB👍👍
If anyone complains about it being on this site, you can just put the pontoons on😂🤣😂
Trev

Hi Trev, been flying since 76, converted everything to electric in 2010. This plane had a 50/45 890KV 1100W outrunner on a gas prop, (56"span) When new, the battery could do that without setting off the battery alarm, HK batteries were quite good back then. As they started declining, their products followed down in quality. I Use Hyperion batteries now,- expensive but way better quality. Can't buy batteries from HK down here now anyhow,- closed their Australian warehouse recently.

(The same plane a guy had in Switzerland managed 156mph on a nitro engine - YT vid somewhere.)

JB

Great sum up Dave. Use what ever battery suites your purposes just be careful with handling them and charging/discharging especially the Lipo's

Very Good Information, Dave👍👍
Trev

how usefull is all thanks dave

Hi JB
Good to hear from someone who also likes recycling useable batteries. I agree the damage often just reduces the power output due to the plated becoming coated with lithium causing the internal resistance to rise. For low power usage and testing this may not be a problem but if a too high current is drawn then the battery heats up and if the internal structure changes a short can occur and bang.
Happened to me once with a slightly puffed 11.1v 2200 mA battery and fortunately I got the boat (my RAF Crash Tender) back to the shore and the battery out before it went bang. The cause was a loose motor mount causing complete stall and smoke.
I have removed damaged cells from packs and just used the good cells so 11.1 to 7.4v. I do check that all cells balance and if they don't I dispose after fully discharging in the battery bank at the local tip.
As you say this is a job for an experienced modeller and should not be attempted by anyone.
Cheers
dave

Hi westward
You can obtain all battery types in a range of voltages and with different current capacities:

SLA are 2v per cell and are typically available as: 6v; 12v; 24v. Capacity can range from 1amp to 18amp in the smaller sizes but leisure and vehicle batteries are much higher amps , bigger and heavier.

NiCd batteries are no longer produced due to their damage to landfill enviromental sites. They have been replaced by NiMh batteries.

NiMh batteries are 1.2v per cell and are typically available as: 1.2v; 4.8v; 6v; 7.2v; 8.4v; 9.6v; 12v etc. Capacity can range from 0.5amp to 10amp in the smaller sizes but you can buy much higher values from specialist suppliers.

Dry cells are 1.5v per cell and are typically used for low powered domestic items like torches and remote controls. They are suitable for use with R/c equipment and I use them in my FlySky FSi6 transmitter as they easily last all season.

To summarise:

SLA are good if you need lots of ballast in your model, say a tug or large liner. Not so good for fast planeing type craft due to their weight and relatively high internal resistance which limits the current.

NiMh are good as a light weight high capacity power source for faster models as their internal resistance is relatively low compared to SLAs but are equally as suitable for more sedate scale models.

Dry cells are not really suitable for powering a motor in all but the smallest toy models due to their low capacity and high cost for just a single use.

LiPos are suitable for all types of models but need careful handling and are not really suitable for novice modellers without guidance from a more experienced and knowledgeable person.

Finally all batteries are marked with warnings on how to dispose and hopefully, if we all follow the instructions, we all remain safe.
dave976

Great Flying!! JB
I could barely see the plane at times.
This is obviously not your first Rodeo😁😁
Trev

Hi Dave, re puffy batteries, I think it depends on the load you put on them if they are slightly puffy. I've used LiPos which have slight puffing for years under light loads, and have even frozen them as an experiment and they still work. As you say, once they have puffed it means a cell (or more ) has been overloaded - sometimes it's just cr.p batteries (HK zippy batteries used to be good but ended up rubbish and dropping cells after one flight).

I still have an HK Flightmax 5s 3000mah 20c LiPo from 02.06.2010 which I still use for low loads, - charges up, balances perfectly, just has no guts. Another Zippy 5s 3000mah 40 c from 05.08.2012 has been slightly puffy for years, charges up, balances perfectly, but again has no guts any more. I can use it with no problems in a boat and limit the throttle, as there is usually very little load on a battery with a small motor. I was using it with a 100mph racer (converted from nitro, and a few others) and pulling around 80A static, and it would come back quite warm after a flight.



It slowly started losing power which is why I stopped using it in planes. The next identical brand new HK zippy battery dropped a cell on the first flight !

I also have 2 old Zippy 2s 1800mah 20c batteries (2011) which are quite puffy but I just use them for testing small motors, pumps etc. Won't charge up fully any more and only just balance (I use them at about 3.8V capacity). I had one in a flouro camping lamp at home one time, and my son was using it in my shed with his mates drinking, and they went off and left it going, which ran it down to nothing. Same happened the other one, but I managed to revive them and have been using them for testing for about 8 yrs and they are still chugging on. Almost ready for the garden fork treatment now.

I never throw LiPos away if only one cell is bad, ($$$$$) and as long as the terminals are solderable (some are crimped alloy and can't be soldered) I'll cut out the bad one and re-wire them. I have a few good 2s and 3s 3000mah LiPos from 3s and 4s HK batteries. These are ideal for some of my boats and vehicles. I disassemble the batteries outside for safety. The balance plugs need converting to the new S number.

I wouldn't recommend doing this to anyone who is not fully conversant with LiPo wiring. (eg 2s/2s1p etc)

JB

Hi JB
I agree with most of your comments with one exception.
Any puffiness in a LiPo cell indicates misuse and irreversible damage to internal components resulting in the release of gases into the sealed cell. Putting in the fridge will cool the gas which will contract in volume and may appear to repair the problem - it won't. On re-use the battery will heat up and puff up and eventually split the seal and self destruct when the air reaches the internal components and results in a chain reaction.
The most serious types of misuse are:
overcharging by a very small amount (0.1v) which can be avoided by using a balanced charger set to the correct battery type, number of cells and capacity;
discharging below the safe voltage, typically 3.5v per cell. A LiPo safe ESC will allow you to set this voltage so that reduced power is enabled allowing safe return to shore;
not discharging to the storage voltage (3.7v per cell) if not using for any length of time (1+ weeks);
common sense as you describe cover the other issues and I would add do not or charge or use the battery if it is too hot to touch.
I agree entirely with your last para.
dave976

An easy safety box to make, is a cheap metal tool box. Mine is lined with plaster board covered with glass cloth. There is a vent hole in the top of the box with glass cloth to retard flames (glass cloth will withstand a gas flame without burning so should slow down a LiPo flame for a period of time ) The box is not locked when in use and the lid is left sitting to avoid gas build-up in the event of a fire.

A good idea with LiPos is to monitor them constantly and ALWAYS balance charge. If you see 1 cell going over the 4.2V max (can happen even with good chargers) and the others are around 4.16/.18/.19, stop the charger and put the batteries on a separate balancer until they even out, then it should be good to use, even though the voltage is a bit less. As long as your battery is not too puffed, (a small amount of softness after a large draw is ok - you can put it in the fridge/ chilly bin for a few minutes if they are warm, and it will usually return to normal.

If they puff a big amount and stay that way, get rid of them. Discharge them in a bucket of really salty water for a week until they stop bubbling at the terminals. I usually cut the balance and main leads off before I do (outside, one wire at a time, making really sure you don't short anything) to use later. Once the battery is discharged, take it out to the middle of the lawn and put a large nail or garden fork right through it and leave it for a while, to make sure it's well and truly dead before disposing of it .

I have LiPos I'm still using from 2011. If you treat them well they can last for years (buy good quality batteries like Hyperion or similar, cheap ones can be dangerous.) You might pay a bit more but they should last a long time.

Balance charge them, don't over draw them , don't drop them, don't have sharp objects (modelling knives etc) round them on the bench, discharge them to storage after use, don't leave them in the hot sun, and NEVER short them, and they will be good for years. Nothing special,- just common sense.

If you are scared of LiPos, try (DON'T) shorting a fully charged car battery and see what happens, be sure to wear an acid proof full suit, respirator and have a decontamination shower handy 😮💥 All batteries are dangerous even NiMH and NiCad's which can cause fires if shorted or go bang.

There are several alternate batteries available.
LiPo has the best power density and the lightest weight.
For fast models LiPo is my choice. For slower and heavier vessels, such as tugs and merchant ships, there are more appropriate choices.

there nicads or lithium batteries or dry-cell ones or NiMIH batteries available in in volts

If LiPo's are so temperamental, is there another choice of battery. Could I for example use a PP9 battery?

in a recycling place in Cornwall a fire was caused by a discarded lippo battery so perhaps as a group we have a responsibility into the use and disposal of them

Slightly off topic, but I was reading an article on I think the BBC web site about the number of fires at waste recycling plants. In some cases the factories were burnt down. The authorities can't be 100% certain but they believe most of them were caused by batteries in disposable items ( musical birthday cards and toys etc.) and batteries thrown away. There is a video from a security camera of an explosion on a conveyor belt. All batteries should be disposed of at an appropriate place. I was repairing my grandson's drone when I accidentally shorted it out. The small flat LiPo immediately puffed up into a barrel shape. Fortunately it didn't explode.
Best wishes Tim

Hi Nick d charging your batteries in a fireproof container will restrict the contents of the battery spreading to other combustible materials if it catches fire have a look at the photos on my previous message. My friend and l consider ourselves very lucky we both discovered the blazing batteries before it turned into something more serious.
He now always charges any battery without it safely placed into a fire resistant container.
Good luck and stay safe. Jim.

Prefer place them in a container. I use a ceramic made fir it but see a bag like thing as well as surplus ammo boxes. If the battery is puffed up it’s no good. Google How to get rid of it. So far no house fires but dark spot like in the pic still in concrete floor. I use 1 to 3 cells about 2 amp batteries. All batteries are labeled with Marker pen. I’m usually around when charging. In summer do it in driveway.

Why do you have to recharge LiPo in a bucket or metal box please?

Good point Len.
Have removed my front seal so can get wires out without them being trapped and cut
Rowen

If you charge in a metal case or ammo can make sure to remove the seals in the cover and make sure it is vented. I know some one who did not and the build up of heat/gasses caused the container to blow up and threw shrapnel all over, lucky no one was hurt

Don’t feel bad back when lipid first came out in large sized packs I had a blow up. I had 2 packs of same brand and a charger. I placed battery A and full charged. Placed battery B aside n put battery A in charger thinking it was B. Went to stores n got a call from neighbor that my house is on fire. Thinking it’s a joke! Nope it wasn’t. The charger didn’t have full charge battery detection as they do now. $500,000 in insurance claimed. The Fed government sent product safety around to see this, after state fire safety guys reports. For a few years after house rebuilt I wasn’t allowed to even own Lipos. With newer chargers they can detect a charged battery n shut off. I don’t do 4 or more single pack as anyway with 5,000 Ma current. The basement floor has a burn spot from the start of fire still there from 2006 fire. ☹️

on mine Idid every thing right very hard to see what they are doing when they are in a air tight bag luckily no harm done but lesson learnt don't use them big warning to other boat user not for novices like me

Evening chaps been useing Lipo,s for a few and have only been bitten once. Had 4 4sll 5000 map on charge at the same time had them all ballenced connected and in a very stout metal container, Ammo box. been doing it the same way for years so l waked away from them and let the charger do its job. Do yourselves a favour if your charging any battery keep an eye at all times on them or something like this will happen.
I was very lucky l was standing by my garage door chatting to a neighbour when these lipo,s went up. The first three pictures are of whats left of the batteries and surounding damage even tho they were in a metal box
the last two pictures are of damage caused to my club colleges garage when you dont put them in a container when charging and completetly forget obout them.
The absolute rule is when charging any battery do not leave them unattended.
Good luck and stay safe Jim.

It sounds like you did not connect the balance lead to your charger and possibly did not select the correct voltage/current and battery type on your charger.
A 4 cell Lipo would have been delivered with the storage voltage of 14.8v. Fully charged 16.8v max.
LiPo chargers can be configured to charge different types of Lithium based batteries and it is important to select the correct type as well as the number of cells and capacity. This then sets all the inbuilt protection circuits.
I agree they are not for everyone and should never be charged unattended or in a domestic dwelling. Good that you had the battery in a charging bag and you did not suffer any personal injury.
dave976

Hi Ken,
Not sure I added much information, but my rules are:
1) Always charge in a steel container (ex Ammo box)
2) Never leave unattended.
3) Use a balance charger.
4) Always charge at a low rate, in my case less than 1 amp.
5) Monitor for any heating
6) Have a fire extinguisher handy - not that many domestic ones will work on an intense chemical fire, but they might help with collateral damage.
Am sure others can add to them. Just common sense really.
Have also found that my older LiPos are now about 5 years old and still work well.
Cheers Rowen

Ouch!
Any sign of what might have caused it. Food for thought though.
Thanks Rowen

it was a brand new 4s it was ok to start with then warmed and a whosh it was alight melted the wires to the charger so not only had it wrote off the battery also cooked a 73.00 charger some adert for lippo

Just finished building a Bristol cutter, using gel cell 6v, as the weight has saved cost of extra lead. Also use a 12v version in a tug, giving plenty of power, but also crucially easily powers a car washer pump, to make the fire jets work with a range of about 5 feet.

Can probably guess at the issue, but would appreciate a description of what happened. I use LiPos exclusively and am always trying to be aware of incidents and any corrective action.
Thanks
Rowen

Not a big fan of LIPO's. Unless you have a space problem or the need for very light weight I would shy away form them unless you want to run the risk of loosing your boat or worst yet burn the house down. I like the extra weight for ballast purposes of using MNH or even the larger gel cells/sealed lead acid batteries. Also these alternative batteries can provide 12V if you need it.

Westwood, as my fireboat is an original aerokits version from the 50's I run it with 2 nicad pacs, 1 each side of the motor, the smallest boat I have with a sla is my dad's old Sea Commander, this one has the battery under the cockpit floor, 12v 7ah.
Cheers Colin.

in the Raf tender where have you put it its quite big colin

Here is a link to a LiFePO4 Battery, gives same power as sla battery but half the weight.
Now fitted in all my boats over 3ft.
Hope you find this useful, cheers Colin.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304592960634?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=ojWIIWJ_TXS&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=LGaRsqMfQ6y&var=603719390400&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY