Some pretty shocking statements and revelations in this AP article.
https://apnews.com/article/titanic-tourist-sub-passengers-search-fd78c1e40917bd3d941274b4427eba97
I think 🤔 this is going to go on for a long time with the lawyers etc, unfortunately, it won't return the lives of those 5 people to their respective families
I think 🤔 this is going to go on for a long time with the lawyers etc, unfortunately, it won't return the lives of those 5 people to their respective families
Sadly, as more reports and information is unveiled, it is becoming clear that this incident was not matter of if it would happen, but rather when it would happen. A report in the New York Time quotes a former passenger, an engineer, who experienced cracking of the pressure hull in 2019. Reportedly a new hull was built. To the same specs? I expect tat the lawsuits will uncover even more information. Someone certainly appears to have been playing Russian Roulette with peoples lives. As the saying goes, Follow the money.🤕
Sadly, as more reports and information is unveiled, it is becoming clear that this incident was not matter of if it would happen, but rather when it would happen. A report in the New York Time quotes a former passenger, an engineer, who experienced cracking of the pressure hull in 2019. Reportedly a new hull was built. To the same specs? I expect tat the lawsuits will uncover even more information. Someone certainly appears to have been playing Russian Roulette with peoples lives. As the saying goes, Follow the money.🤕
Yes, SOSUS detected the "anomoly" when it happened...
Published (updated) this morning in the NYTimes...
By Eric Schmitt
Published June 22, 2023
Updated June 23, 2023, 6:29 a.m. ET
The U.S. Navy, using data from a secret network of underwater sensors designed to track hostile submarines, detected “an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion” in the vicinity of the Titan submersible at the time communications with the vessel were lost on Sunday, two senior Navy officials said on Thursday.
But with no other indications of a catastrophe, one of the officials said, the search was continued.
The data from the sensors was combined with information from airborne Navy P-8 surveillance planes and sonar buoys on the surface to triangulate the approximate location of the Titan, one of the officials said. The analysis of undersea acoustic data and information about the location of the noise were then passed on to the Coast Guard official in charge of the search, Rear Adm. John Mauger.
Because there was no visual or other conclusive evidence of a catastrophic failure, one of the officials said, it would have been “irresponsible” to immediately assume the five passengers were dead, and the search was ordered to continue even though the outlook appeared grim. Both of the Navy officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss operational details.
It was not immediately clear how widely the Navy’s acoustical analysis was disseminated among the search team, nor why the Navy had not made it public earlier. The Navy’s acoustic analysis from the secret sensor network was first reported by The Wall Street Journal.
Yes, SOSUS detected the "anomoly" when it happened...
Published (updated) this morning in the NYTimes...
By Eric Schmitt
Published June 22, 2023
Updated June 23, 2023, 6:29 a.m. ET
The U.S. Navy, using data from a secret network of underwater sensors designed to track hostile submarines, detected “an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion” in the vicinity of the Titan submersible at the time communications with the vessel were lost on Sunday, two senior Navy officials said on Thursday.
But with no other indications of a catastrophe, one of the officials said, the search was continued.
The data from the sensors was combined with information from airborne Navy P-8 surveillance planes and sonar buoys on the surface to triangulate the approximate location of the Titan, one of the officials said. The analysis of undersea acoustic data and information about the location of the noise were then passed on to the Coast Guard official in charge of the search, Rear Adm. John Mauger.
Because there was no visual or other conclusive evidence of a catastrophic failure, one of the officials said, it would have been “irresponsible” to immediately assume the five passengers were dead, and the search was ordered to continue even though the outlook appeared grim. Both of the Navy officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss operational details.
It was not immediately clear how widely the Navy’s acoustical analysis was disseminated among the search team, nor why the Navy had not made it public earlier. The Navy’s acoustic analysis from the secret sensor network was first reported by The Wall Street Journal.
Evening Gents.
When I started this thread two days ago we feared the worst but hoped for the best.
Sadly as expected it has now been confirmed all have perished after a catastrophic implosion.
Titanic has claimed more lives and should be left in peace in my mind.
Regards Bill
Evening Gents.
When I started this thread two days ago we feared the worst but hoped for the best.
Sadly as expected it has now been confirmed all have perished after a catastrophic implosion.
Titanic has claimed more lives and should be left in peace in my mind.
Regards Bill
It rather looks as if our worst fears have come true🤔
Titans oxygen supply is due to expire about now, 14:00 CET.
Given all the adverse comments on the build and safety of Titan, from acknowledged submersible experts around the world and previous passengers, I would strongly suspect that catastrophic hull / window failure will turn out to be the cause.
A quick death at least. Little comfort for the bereaved relatives.
Mr Rush may have paid the ultimate price for his alleged cost cutting, and INNOVATIVE engineering.
Seems we may have to wait for that episode of Secrets of the Oceans after all☹️
Doug
It rather looks as if our worst fears have come true🤔
Titans oxygen supply is due to expire about now, 14:00 CET.
Given all the adverse comments on the build and safety of Titan, from acknowledged submersible experts around the world and previous passengers, I would strongly suspect that catastrophic hull / window failure will turn out to be the cause.
A quick death at least. Little comfort for the bereaved relatives.
Mr Rush may have paid the ultimate price for his alleged cost cutting, and INNOVATIVE engineering.
Seems we may have to wait for that episode of Secrets of the Oceans after all☹️
Doug
Young at heart 😉 Slightly older in other places.😊 Cheers Doug
Good Lord!
A spokesman for the submersible industry last night on PBS said that this particular craft had a staggering lack of testing and safety redundancies. A former employee brought on to inspect the Titan said, "no non-destructive testing had been performed on the Titan’s hull to check for “delaminations, porosity and voids of sufficient adhesion of the glue being used due to the thickness of the hull.”
Another former employee said that "the hull had only been built to five inches thick, company engineers told him they had expected it to be seven inches thick." 😔
It boggles the mind. 😠
Good Lord!
A spokesman for the submersible industry last night on PBS said that this particular craft had a staggering lack of testing and safety redundancies. A former employee brought on to inspect the Titan said, "no non-destructive testing had been performed on the Titan’s hull to check for “delaminations, porosity and voids of sufficient adhesion of the glue being used due to the thickness of the hull.”
Another former employee said that "the hull had only been built to five inches thick, company engineers told him they had expected it to be seven inches thick." 😔
The question is, would you go down 2.5 miles in a home made submersible controlled by a Playstation joystick after being bolted into it with no way of escape, and being totally uncertified by any expert authority on submersibles.? Even dozens of properly built subs have gone missing or had problems, and they go nowhere near the depth that blob of carbon fibre was going. Not to mention you have to sign a no fault possible death contract before you go!.
In my mind, you pays yer money and takes yer chances. Sky diving with only one chute is probably 500% safer!.
JB
The question is, would you go down 2.5 miles in a home made submersible controlled by a Playstation joystick after being bolted into it with no way of escape, and being totally uncertified by any expert authority on submersibles.? Even dozens of properly built subs have gone missing or had problems, and they go nowhere near the depth that blob of carbon fibre was going. Not to mention you have to sign a no fault possible death contract before you go!.
In my mind, you pays yer money and takes yer chances. Sky diving with only one chute is probably 500% safer!.
Morning All.
That’s an interesting report jumpugly.
None of this bodes well at this time.
Reports of 30 min banging signals are interesting but dubious.
🤞.
Regards
Bill
Morning All.
That’s an interesting report jumpugly.
None of this bodes well at this time.
Reports of 30 min banging signals are interesting but dubious.
🤞.
Regards
Bill
Published today in the NYTimes...I was saddened to read it. 😔
-- Guy
"OceanGate was warned of potential for ‘catastrophic’ problems with Titanic mission.
Leaders in the submersible vehicle industry urged the company in 2018 to undergo a more stringent certification process.
By Jenny Gross and Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs
June 20, 2023, 3:16 p.m. ET
Leaders in the submersible craft industry were so worried about what they called the “experimental” approach of OceanGate, the company whose craft has gone missing, that they wrote a letter in 2018 warning of possible “catastrophic” problems with the submersible’s development and its planned mission to tour the Titanic wreckage.
The letter, obtained by The New York Times, was sent to OceanGate’s chief executive, Stockton Rush, by the Manned Underwater Vehicles committee of the Marine Technology Society, a 60-year-old trade group that aims to promote ocean technology and educate the public about it.
The signatories — more than three dozen people, including oceanographers, submersible company executives and deep-sea explorers — warned that they had “unanimous concern” about OceanGate’s development of the Titan submersible, the same craft that is now missing in the North Atlantic with five people on board.
The chairman of the committee, Will Kohnen, said in an interview Tuesday that the letter grew out of fears about what could happen if the company did not stick to established standards.
“The submersible industry had significant concerns over the strategy of building a deep sea expedition submersible without following existing classification safety guidelines,” Mr. Kohnen said.
The letter said that OceanGate’s marketing of the Titan had been “misleading,” because it claimed that the craft would meet or exceed the safety standards of a risk assessment agency known as DNV, yet the company had no plans to have the craft assessed by the agency.
The industry leaders said that OceanGate should test its prototypes under the watch of DNV or another accredited registrar.
“While this may demand additional time and expense,” the signatories wrote, “it is our unanimous view that this validation process by a third-party is a critical component in the safeguards that protect all submersible occupants.”
Mr. Kohnen said in the interview that Mr. Rush, OceanGate’s chief executive, called him after reading the letter and told him that industry regulations were stifling innovation. In a 2019 blog post titled “Why Isn’t Titan Classed?” the company made similar arguments.
OceanGate said in the post that because its Titan craft was so innovative, it could take years to get it certified by leading assessment agencies. “Bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation,” the company wrote.
A spokesman for OceanGate declined to comment on the 2018 letter.
Another signatory of the industry group's 2018 letter, Bart Kemper, said in an interview that he and other members were worried that the Titan had not followed standard certification procedures.
“This letter was basically asking them to please do what the other submarines do, especially the passenger ones,” said Mr. Kemper, a forensic engineer who works on submarine designs, citing Atlantis Submarines, a Canadian company that operates undersea tours, as an example.
Another signatory, Charles Kohnen, who is Will Kohnen’s brother, said the whole industry was worried about Titan. “We had concerns,” he said on Tuesday, “and we addressed them in the letter and we made sure that OceanGate received our concerns.”
More recently, OceanGate referenced some technical issues with the Titan in a court filing.
“On the first dive to the Titanic, the submersible encountered a battery issue and had to be manually attached to its lifting platform,” the company’s legal and operational adviser, David Concannon, wrote in 2022 in a filing in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, which oversees matters having to do with the Titanic. The submersible sustained modest damage to its exterior, he wrote, leading OceanGate to cancel the mission so it could make repairs.
Still, Mr. Concannon wrote in the filing, 28 individuals had been able to visit the Titanic wreckage on the craft in 2022.
Mr. Concannon invited the federal judge who was hearing the case, Rebecca Beach Smith, to join the company for an expedition, according to a separate filing, something the judge seemed interested in doing.
“Perhaps, if another expedition occurs in the future, I will be able to do so,” the judge wrote in May, adding that after hearing for decades about the Titanic wreckage, “that opportunity would be quite informative and present a first ‘eyes on’ view of the wreck site by the Court.”
Published today in the NYTimes...I was saddened to read it. 😔
-- Guy
"OceanGate was warned of potential for ‘catastrophic’ problems with Titanic mission.
Leaders in the submersible vehicle industry urged the company in 2018 to undergo a more stringent certification process.
By Jenny Gross and Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs
June 20, 2023, 3:16 p.m. ET
Leaders in the submersible craft industry were so worried about what they called the “experimental” approach of OceanGate, the company whose craft has gone missing, that they wrote a letter in 2018 warning of possible “catastrophic” problems with the submersible’s development and its planned mission to tour the Titanic wreckage.
The letter, obtained by The New York Times, was sent to OceanGate’s chief executive, Stockton Rush, by the Manned Underwater Vehicles committee of the Marine Technology Society, a 60-year-old trade group that aims to promote ocean technology and educate the public about it.
The signatories — more than three dozen people, including oceanographers, submersible company executives and deep-sea explorers — warned that they had “unanimous concern” about OceanGate’s development of the Titan submersible, the same craft that is now missing in the North Atlantic with five people on board.
The chairman of the committee, Will Kohnen, said in an interview Tuesday that the letter grew out of fears about what could happen if the company did not stick to established standards.
“The submersible industry had significant concerns over the strategy of building a deep sea expedition submersible without following existing classification safety guidelines,” Mr. Kohnen said.
The letter said that OceanGate’s marketing of the Titan had been “misleading,” because it claimed that the craft would meet or exceed the safety standards of a risk assessment agency known as DNV, yet the company had no plans to have the craft assessed by the agency.
The industry leaders said that OceanGate should test its prototypes under the watch of DNV or another accredited registrar.
“While this may demand additional time and expense,” the signatories wrote, “it is our unanimous view that this validation process by a third-party is a critical component in the safeguards that protect all submersible occupants.”
Mr. Kohnen said in the interview that Mr. Rush, OceanGate’s chief executive, called him after reading the letter and told him that industry regulations were stifling innovation. In a 2019 blog post titled “Why Isn’t Titan Classed?” the company made similar arguments.
OceanGate said in the post that because its Titan craft was so innovative, it could take years to get it certified by leading assessment agencies. “Bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation,” the company wrote.
A spokesman for OceanGate declined to comment on the 2018 letter.
Another signatory of the industry group's 2018 letter, Bart Kemper, said in an interview that he and other members were worried that the Titan had not followed standard certification procedures.
“This letter was basically asking them to please do what the other submarines do, especially the passenger ones,” said Mr. Kemper, a forensic engineer who works on submarine designs, citing Atlantis Submarines, a Canadian company that operates undersea tours, as an example.
Another signatory, Charles Kohnen, who is Will Kohnen’s brother, said the whole industry was worried about Titan. “We had concerns,” he said on Tuesday, “and we addressed them in the letter and we made sure that OceanGate received our concerns.”
More recently, OceanGate referenced some technical issues with the Titan in a court filing.
“On the first dive to the Titanic, the submersible encountered a battery issue and had to be manually attached to its lifting platform,” the company’s legal and operational adviser, David Concannon, wrote in 2022 in a filing in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, which oversees matters having to do with the Titanic. The submersible sustained modest damage to its exterior, he wrote, leading OceanGate to cancel the mission so it could make repairs.
Still, Mr. Concannon wrote in the filing, 28 individuals had been able to visit the Titanic wreckage on the craft in 2022.
Mr. Concannon invited the federal judge who was hearing the case, Rebecca Beach Smith, to join the company for an expedition, according to a separate filing, something the judge seemed interested in doing.
“Perhaps, if another expedition occurs in the future, I will be able to do so,” the judge wrote in May, adding that after hearing for decades about the Titanic wreckage, “that opportunity would be quite informative and present a first ‘eyes on’ view of the wreck site by the Court.”
Very sad news of the five people missing, but surely
there must be some safety system on board in case of this happening, but here's hoping that everything works out fine, and they can be rescued.
Cheers, Pete
Very sad news of the five people missing, but surely
there must be some safety system on board in case of this happening, but here's hoping that everything works out fine, and they can be rescued.
Dear All.
I sincerely hope I am wrong but it looks as if the ill fated Titanic has or may still claim more victims even after all these years with the potential loss of the latest expedition.
I am not a particularly religious person but I do hope that there will be a positive result and a miracle will prevail.
Food for thought!
Regards
Bill.
Dear All.
I sincerely hope I am wrong but it looks as if the ill fated Titanic has or may still claim more victims even after all these years with the potential loss of the latest expedition.
I am not a particularly religious person but I do hope that there will be a positive result and a miracle will prevail.
Food for thought!
Regards
Bill.
