150amp Sea King with Reverse.

After many months of trying to persuade my various Sea King “forwards only” ESC’s to also run with a reverse function, I had almost given-up.

With a long history of racing electric cars of most scales from 1/18 to 1/5th, I have acquired a lot of different programme boards including several different types from Hobbywing - many of which are updated “on line” to stay current with any new features as they become available.

Absolutely none of them would speak to my SeaKing ESC, but then I tried various combinations of throttle stick movements when the ESC was in “programme mode” (like when first introducing a new ESC to a radio system for the first time).

Eventually I found a sequence that would give me a reverse function 👍

For the first time since I started using the superbly powerful and efficient Sea King and Turnigy “forwards only” marine ESC I can now actually reverse them without loosing any of their forwards power or throttle movement.

There is still absolutely no way of getting (any of the ones that I have) to speak to any type of programming board, but at least I now have a reverse function, and for a model boat this is plenty good enough.

The extra refinements that a programme card could offer to the serious model car racer are not available, but having an unexpected reverse function is a real bonus.

Bob.

Thanks JB, that is very encouraging.

…and a neat little video to show it in action too.

Plenty of room in just about any of my Classic Model Power Boats to fit it too, so I will start looking for a source of supply for a similar 10A 240V switch.


Bob.

Hi Bob.

I've already tested this with a brushless ESC, and used the same idea for reversing one of the brushed motors in my MTB about 20yrs ago, (posted in the how to section about a year ago) You can use a 4 way toggle switch with a hole drilled in the toggle for a rod to a servo. You have a silicone tube buffer each side of the toggle on the rod, with adjustable stops behind them. You wire 2 of the 3 leads on a brushless ESC to the switch so it reverses any 2 leads. The 3rd lead bypasses the switch. ( you have to make up a few leads)

The switch I used was 10A 240V and it works fine with most small to medium sized motors. You can probably run up to 1000W safely through the switch. The motor in the video is rated at 470W and nothing gets remotely warm, flat out unloaded. The important thing is not to reverse it without stopping,- motor needs to stop before switching. Fwd and Rev is 100% positive (unlike some of the cheaper ESCs with reverse.)

JB

I will give that idea some consideration RubaDub as it could save me taking a perfectly good working ESC out of a boat and replacing it with an untried and untested (as of yet) water-cooled SHARK ESC that has forwards and reverse built in.

A couple of weeks ago one of my local friendly holiday camp neighbours started coming to the Southport Model Boat club with me and showed some interest in getting started with Classic Model Power Boats and over a couple of pints of our latest (strong) home brewed beer he revealed that he is an avid electronics components buyer.

He also had various discount codes that he could apply to his purchases from a well known Chinese supplier.

This quickly deteriorated into a competition to find the cheapest SHARK 100A ESC and I found one for £19 including delivery !

Surprisingly it has arrived safely in the post (!) so I now have one to test and my new future model boating companion also bought one (for slightly more!).

Bob.

Zooma.. I had a different issue, but needing the same solution.. (I have an ESC WITH a reverse function that I disabled as I don't have a reverse throttle stick position on my Transmitter!!)

The attached photos show my solution. A 12v single throw, double pole relay, wired to reverse the polarity on the motor by flicking a switch on my transmitter. I now just view the throttle lever as an RPM device and the switch as the Forward/Reverse, kinda like a real cruiser!

BTW, this relay is a 30amp device.. (much more than the stall current on my 800 motor!)

This setup would also allow you to swap/reverse 2 of the 3 supply wires to your Brushless motor..

You might want to try a Watt meter on your setup to see what the actual peak current your motor draws.. A 150amp ESC on full load would blow the brains out of ANY mechanical switching device, in which case you SHOULD consider a Forward/Reverse Brushless ESC, providing your Transmitter will support this function on the throttle stick!!

DG

Just to finish this “knowing who makes what” chat, when I had my first Toyota MR2 sports car, I was really surprised when I opened the engine bay of this early mid-engined car to find the name YAMAHA proudly cast into the engine!

After taking delivery of a new Nissan X-Trail e-Power and finding the failed battery was marked “Mitsubishi” was another surprise.

Having electronics companies sub-contracting manufacture of certain models of ESC in their product ranges to other manufacturers comes as no surprise to me.

Bob.

HobbyKing make a lot of good ESC - many of which are used in r/c car racing (I have used them for many years).

There can be quite a lot of confusion about which Chinese manufacturer makes what ESC and the marketing names that they or their distributors and sellers use to market them with, and even this can change from territory to territory.

As far as I am aware Hobby Wing make most of the well known ESC that could be be branded with their own name, Quickrun, SeaKing, Leopard and Turnigy - and probably others that I have not come across yet.

Another important Chinese manufacturer is Surpass who also make some excellent ESC and servos too!

Surpass may well also produce other servos and ESC under other brand names for all I know.

It is difficult to be 100% sure about who makes what brands these days or to know if that will remain the case in future years as brand names are re-used or sold, and some have various models made under sub-contract elsewhere as well etc.

Bob.

Turnigy is a brand in its own right and confusingly HobbyKing is a supplier as opposed to the HobbyWing brand that produce the Quicrun and Seaking ESCs. A Turnigy program card, if available for your particular ESC would be needed.

When I first ordered an ESC, from Component Shop, I ordered a 60amp Leopard Hobby and when it arrived found it was a HobbyWing Quicrun that had been supplied. I was on the verge of sending it back but when comparing specs and looks it appeared to be identical so kept it, especially as other users gave them good reports and they and the water-cooled Seaking have become my standard ESCs. I think I read somewhere that Leopard could use the HobbyWing Program Card but my memory is not clear on that now and I have no need to find out.

Here is the HobbyWing Seaking ESC I bought to use in my Swordsman.

I am not too sure about that Chris.

Most of mine are branded ‘Sea King” but others have the Hobby King brand on them - but they are all water-cooled ‘forwards only” ESC from the same manufacturer.

Pictured is the 150A ESC that I have in my Rapier, and that one is branded Turnigy as it is sold by HobbyKing, but I have the same ones branded Sea King which I believe is the manufacturers own brand name?

When I get home I can picture some of them and the two different branded boxes they came in.



Bob.

Bob, are they not the HobbyWing Seaking then?

Or are they of Seaking manufacturer which I can't find any info. on?

I am now thinking that there is not going to be a simple reliable method of reversing my water-cooled Sea King ESC’s.

When I bought them they were quite expensive heavy duty units ideal for racing, but probably over-specified for mixed and high speed cruising on our local lake.

Now I can buy water-cooled SHARK 100A ESC with reverse for around £30 perhaps there is no point in looking any further……as long as the SHARK ESC prove to be reliable.

Bob.

Hi Chris,
Glad to help. Bin round that barbecue myself several years ago😉
Part 1 is relevant here. Use the BEC option.
BUT! Heed the warning about not connecting the battery to the ESC and switching on before the ESC is plugged into the Program Card. Otherwise the Card will not recognise the ESC.
Tried to post the Instructions but the site wouldn't accept it☹️
You can find it at the link below.
The ESC works fine in my Sea Scout which I inadvertently transformed from a River Cruiser into a Sport Fisherman/Offshore Power Boat, using a 1000kV brushless and 3S Lipo😮

Cheers, Doug😎

https://www.krick-modell.de/shop_fachhandel/Texte/67069_LEDProgrammierBox-EN-kl.pdf

Thanks Doug, that's brilliant!

I either never had, or have mislaid the instructions for the LED program card (surprised if mislaid as I keep all my instructions in a folder but you never know) and because of what is said in the ESC instructions concluded that you couldn't use the program card - and not helped by what the vendors say in their descriptions or don't say! I've now downloaded the program card instructions.

The two models I'm using the 16BL30 in are only slow speed craft and I was able to set up OK using bleeps for the forward-Reverse and battery cut-off so that's fine but I will check using the program card.

So, great info. Though I doubt Bob will be using a 30amp ESC in any of his models!

Chris

Hi Chris,
The so called 'updated' version of the 16BL30 is externally absolutely identical to mine, which I purchased eight to ten years ago. WP simply means Waterproof, which it in fact always was. G2 presumably Generation 2, so they've tinkered about inside, maybe new FETs or control chip. Who knows?
Just as the 'original', i.e. mine, it has no Programming Port like it's big brothers BL60 etc do.
Quite simply because being a 'Mini ESC' there is no room for it!😐
So what to do?🤔
Easy peasy, they use the signal cable from the RX😉
If you look at the end of the LED programming Card there are two sockets. See pic 2.
One for the signal cable and one for an external battery. External battery not needed with the 16BL30 as it has a 6V 1a BEC.
Refer to attached Section 2 of the LED Programming Card manual.
Para 2.1, bullet 1 is relevant to the BL30.

For future reference I also attach a chart of which Programming Card works with which Hobbywing ESC. Courtesy of Krick, my local supplier here in Germany.

Rest assured, I would never have bought a stock of these ESCs if I knew I had to use the (**''@@💥 expletives beeped out🙊) bleep and beep system to program it!!
Bon chance mon ami👍
Cheers, Doug😎

I didn't buy mine that long ago but see that they have bought out an updated version namely the WP 16BL30 G2 Brushless Sensorless Mini 30A ESC which does accept card programming!

As you've been using yours for many years doubt that yours are the updated version.

Doug - when did you buy yours? I hope I am wrong but I'm using two of those (and have more in stock) presently and had to program them using the "bleep" method which applies in more than one way! 😀

From memory they don't have a port for connecting the card to and I'm pretty sure that in the instructions it says you can't use a card. Paradoxically you can program the 30amp SeaKing.

I'll have to check the instructions.

There you go, no programming port for the 16BL30. Trust me I tried to find somewhere to connect my program card and was very disappointed that I couldn't! I think, again from memory that the 60amp and above use the port for the fan which the 30amp doesn't have.

Hi Bob,
I don't know the current draw of the motors you are using but ...
The from some members proposed servo and microswitch solution, albeit with caveat re current draw, can only work with relatively low motor currents. Microswitches are usually only rated for 1 or 2 Amps. There are higher current versions but they are much larger and maybe only 5 or 10A at most.
For higher currents the most simple and elegant solution would be an RC switch and a double pole/double throw relay, with contact rating in excess of the motor current draw.
Cheers, Doug😎
PS Precisely how the brushless motor/ESC would react to such treatment I don't know🤔

Hi Chris,
Re 'Apart from the 30amp Quicrun, ...'
I must beg to differ😉
The Quicrun 30A brushless ESC, type 16BL30, has been my go to brushless ESc for many years. I have a stock which I bought when Krick here in Germany had a special offer going😊
It is most easily programmed from the 'General' Programming card which I bought at the same time.
Cheers, Doug😎

Bob, the HobbyWing SeaKing and the non-water-cooled Quicrun ESCs, both of which are my go to ESCs (more of the Quicruns) can be programmed in a number of ways including forward only and forward-reverse - all of mine being the latter.

Apart from the 30amp Quicrun, all can be programmed using a dedicated card, which is around £10. This makes programming a doddle and includes things like cut-off voltage for LiPos, soft/hard start response and throttle settings etc.

Once programmed for forward-reverse the stick when at the middle position is zero throttle/neutral.

You can reverse the direction of a brushless motor by swapping two out of the three connections between the ESC and the motor. It should be possible to use a servo to do that, though with the cost of brushless ESCs, I am not sure it would be worth the effort.

Hello Lazy Ferret,

I am using brushless motors and matching brushless Electronic Speed Controllers, so I am not sure that idea would work?

Bob.

Assuming you are using normal DC motors, the easiest way I can see would need an extra channel to use a servo to swap the polarity of the wires to the motor. This could be done with 2 micro switches. It all depends on the currents drawn though.

I see that quite a few flellow club members are now using the SHARK ESC that all come with water cooling and forwards and reverse functions as standard.

The prices of these ESC seems to vary with the direction of the wind and so it is very difficult to know what sort of price I should consider paying for a 100A or a 120A SHARK ESC.

Also, I don’t once how good and durable they will be when they are in regular weekly use?

Any information about them from regular users of these ESC would be welcomed.

Bob.