"...I suspect the rules committee would burn much midnight oil to ban such attempts. it could be argued that the GPS signals are received by all boats and mine would only be making use of them...."

Indeed. That's what the rules ban - 'making use' of remote control inputs.

There is a fair bit more that can be covered - in particular making use of the software used for these high-altitude balloon launched gliders which fly to the edge of space and then land again. This is probably the classic link:

http://www.canuck-boffin.net/sonde/

You will see that the aircraft can run under three different modes:

Direct Control - the pilot moves the control surfaces
Autonomous Control - the aircraft decides where and how to fly according to a pre-defined plan
Pilot Direction - the pilot specifies way-points and heights, and the aircraft decides how to get there itself...

A well thought out post oh dodgy one!!

I suspect the rules committee would burn much midnight oil to ban such attempts. it could be argued that the GPS signals are received by all boats and mine would only be making use of them. Remember that in addition to gyro there are also accelerometers which could measure drift and thus compensate.

I started this in the hopes of sparking some interest in the possibility of using more modern electronics in model boats in general.

A "heading gyro" would make running down a pond on a course way simpler ( I believe their use is gaining ground among the car racing groups).

it may be that I am part of a small minority in that I view the controls and their expansion as just as interesting as the boat itself, for this I make no apology to each his own.

I thank you all for the polite way this has been treated.

We may as well end this thread since we seem to have exhausted the subject.

As an aside pendulum rudder ( and occasionally elevator ) was used in free flight model airplanes in the 50-60s and magnetic steering in still used in some free flight gliders.

Haverlock is accurate when he says that 'remote' control is forbidden - which implies that controls integrated into the boat's structure ARE allowed. I believe, for instance, that pendulum controls were experimented with in the early years, for both boats and aircraft, to provide some stability.

However, I suspect that he will run up against some aggressive interpretation if he wants to use modern electronics. For a start, the GPS system certainly relies on satellite communications, and these are 'remote', so I guess that would be banned. Modern electronics could easily identify the target poles, by optical, sound or radar beams, and then direct the boat accordingly, but the echos from these signals would be 'remote', and hence could be banned under the current rule.

I suspect that a fully autonomous internal gyro-based system which maintained a selected heading would be OK under the rules, but that would not offer the improved target accuracy that GPS could offer, and might be no better than a well-designed hull. The skill in straight running is to predict the amount of offset drift which occurs, and if the rules are aggressively interpreted to ban any external/remote 'communication' (including the boat taking external sightings of some kind) then it is hard to see a big benefit from currently available technology....

How about a servo inside that swings a weight from side to side?
swing it to port the boat, very slightly, moves to port..

but would the GPS system be accurate enough?

the operative word is REMOTE since I am proposing an autonomous boat with no external control ....................

Hi,
The key words are "or other means". That means, any form of control of the boat (I assume when on a run) is not allowed.
Having said that, yes, it would be an interesting exercise!
Edward

I just rechecked the MPBA rules and

"but remote control of boats by radio or other means is permissible
except in free running events."

Since I am not proposing remote control it would seem I can use the rudder.

This is becoming an interesting project I may just build one for the hell of it. I have no interest in actually competing BUT I could really enjoy watching the organizers of an event scratching their heads to figure out HOW I am breaking the rules.

Or a steerable keel that no-one would notice? 👍

grins I accept that this is totally against the spirit of the rules and this is just me thinking of ways to beat the system! After all there are hulls designed to give an advantage so much so that they tend to be in a different class ( wedges).

if the rudder is out how about twin motor setup differential throttle would give similar results.

I would have thought that ANY device connected to the rudder would be a no no.
You could have anything you want to get the boat to it's target, BUT as soon as it is connected to the rudder? NO sir, not cricket and the rules do state......"According to clause 1(6) it prohibits R/C or similar controls"....note the use of the word .. "controls".

nice try. and it still would be an interesting thing to see done, but not in competition.

Ahhhhhhhh but is a large spinning mirror against the rules?

And while we are at the laser how about aiming a laser pointer at the target then having the boat use it as an aiming point?

Sounds expensive 😰

Google's self driving cars don't fully rely on GPS for positioning. Maybe a laser guidance system is a good option 😉 but then people miigghhhttt notice a giant spinning mirror on the top of the boat 😀

At the moment its a pure thought experiment. I have Arduino ( used for other stuff) and a PI so the softs are not a worry.

With GPS its a question of how many decimal places they have the sats setup for. Millspec is accurate to a few centimeters.

HI Haverlock, I've built a quad copter from scratch before now which includes GPS, gyros and accelerators. The system can be programmed also for model cars (see http://rover.ardupilot.com) but I don't see why it couldn't be also used for boats, it's the same principle except steering would be done through the rudder and not wheels.

You could easily build some Arduino software to do this too. You'd need an arduino board, GPS module, probably compass module too. Arduino PWM outputs are perfect inputs to servos and ESC's.

One problem perhaps though, is that GPS alone is not wholly accurate. it can be out by 2-5 meters at best.... more likely 10 meters. On a calm day you could probably rely on the compass alone, but I don't think GPS will keep it on course accurately enough.

Interested to see this working!

Stephen

yes but there are way more complex and easily available packages.

The one I am thinking of contains GPS., Gyros, and accelerometers.

The units are sold for model airplane use and will fly a model with no human input.

This is " off the shelf" equipment not some science fiction pipedream.

Are you suggesting something like a gyro compass?

I fear not! Similar would indicate that a human is influencing the path the boat takes.

I am thinking of a self contained autonomous machine. Thus once released the boat decides on the path it takes.

You may think that I am proposing something from science fiction, I assure you that this is not the case.

Just to prove a point

https://vimeo.com/68033138

an autonomous glider ( James May) .

I have had a look at the MPBA rules. These were updated on 14/10/2001. According to clause 1(6) it prohibits R/C or similar controls in straight running. Does this answer the question?

What do the rules say? I've never done this although have a vague interest.