hi,
I found on the net examples of electrical connection twin ESC.
regarding the connection of the rudder servo with the Y cable to one of the branches for the ESC, it made me problems when reversing , and that's why I gave the rudder separately

Hi,
I have to say - I use a simple V-tail mixer only, and ESC at the basic setting, the transmitter => Throttle and Ail only(right stick).
I tried to connect Rudder servo to this design, but I could not adjust it, the servo behaved "non-standardly".
That's why I have it connected to the usual rudder channel nr 4 (left stick).
One more important thing ... check the settings of the transmitter, especially the mixes that are sometimes pre-programmed from the factory.
It is recommended to clear the transmitter memory first, and then set your own values. it usually helps ...
I use the power supply of the receiver from a single source via an external BEC, powering motors using Y cables to ESC,from the same source as BEC ( gel Aku 12V).I had setup problems too - I finally found that one ESC was defective. after replacing both ESC no problems.

Good luck John 👍
The 'hurricane' brought us a superb indian Summer here in south Germany, blue skies and 25°C in Munich. 😊 Should last until Saturday, then the rain is back 🤔 it really is an ill wind that blows nobody any good!
To avoid the binding timing problem Dave describes above use a separate RX batt and disconnect BOTH BECs!! Then only switch on the ESCs after the TX is bound with the RX.
Several RC module manufacturers warn against BECs, e.g. Action Electronics! Happy sailing, Cheers Doug 😎

Thanks Dave and Doug, I will make sure the ESC's are set up and if the hurricane has passed I will look forward to a nice day sailing 😁

John
As you are using 2.4Ghz radios there is quite a long delay in the binding between Tx and Rx. The ESCs also perform a set up and I have noticed that this is often quicker than the radio. As a result the ESCs have no signal and can revert to a failsafe state.
If you have correctly set up the ESC with the tx then it should retain this setting unless you press the set up button whilst the lights are flashing.
I suspect this is at the root of the problem.
To restore the settings to your set I suggest you use a separate rx battery, centre the throttle stick and trim and get the Tx/rx working together. Then switch on the ESC and whilst the lights are flashing press the set up button and move the throttle stick full forward (solid green) then full reverse (solid red) return to neutral solid red/green.
If you now switch off the esc and rx battery and switch back on the ESC should have solid red/green light showing.
Repeat with the other ESC and test.
Switch off and connect both escs via the Y lead. You can use one ESC to provide the rx power but do disconnect one red lead.
Centre the tx throttle and trim and make sure you switch on the ESC with the BEC connected first.

Hopefully both ESCs will now have solid red/green leds.

I use three Mtronic ESCs with my RMS Olympic and had a very similar problem.

I suspect the change from bench to water is more to do with stick/trim alignment and longer binding time due to other 2.4 Tx working in close proximity at the sailing site.

I look forward to hearing your efforts next wednesday - hopefully the next hurricane will have passed by then.

Good, get rid of the mixer until the basics work! 👍
I'm pretty sure the snag is more in the antenna position and/or motor suppression - duff capacitor? - causing a Failsfe condition.
Good luck, Doug 😎

Thank you all,

The boat did not sail today due to an unrelated problem. Plan is to fit the new ESC's which arrived today and make sure they are correctly programmed, also considering losing the mixer as it did not alleviate the problem. it will sail next Wednesday and I will give you an update! Thanks again for all your help.

Hi reilly, Possible, but I would only expect the motor load current to decrease the RX sensitivity if the battery is almost flat and the extra load pushes it below the failsafe voltage limit. John has already confirmed that the battery is/was fully charged.
Cheers Doug 😎
PS testing without BEC is a good idea as it would confirm or eliminate the possibility that the RX supply voltage is collapsing and causing a Failsafe condition. I prefer separate RX batteries anyway, fewer surprises😲! Except in the smallest Plastic magic projects where weight is critical.

Another thought - The main difference between the bench and the water is the load on the system - ie increase in amps.
This load may cause the reduction in signal and into failsafe? What size propellers are in use?
Maybe a test with smaller props.
I would also test without the BEC.

Hi John, maybe some clues here! "Hints & Tips - FAQs"
You may need to make some adjustments on your TX; Failsafe, EPA ...
I use Viper Marine 10s without any bother at all😉
Still don't quite understand why it works dry but not wet🤔 UNLESS, poor antenna installation or motor suppression (interference?) is activating the Failsafe. if still set as 'standard' (i.e. for aircraft) on the TX this will most probably be 'Full Back' and needs resetting to the mid point.
Most (only?) logical explanation I can see, and changing the ESC won't cure it - but al least you'll have some spares 😉
Good luck, Doug 😎

Hi John,
I have a several MTroniks ESCs.
If you have the Plug & Play type, then when you first start you need to move the stick forwards and then back. I find that sometimes they refuse to go forward and prefer reverse when the stick is moved forward, so I move the stick backwards first. This usually works (although I don't know why).
I do not use the BEC (my choice).
I have also had issues with using a single 30Amp Tio ESC running two 12V motors via the single ESC in my Vosper MTB. No answers from MTroniks.
Regards

Yes I will give you an update tomorrow.

Please let us know what happens

Hi Berty,

That is what I will be doing at the lake tomorrow. I have found the problem impossible! So in the absence of anything else will try a new esc! How can something change when it is in the water! There are no connections to the shafts or external in the water! Anyway it will be sailing backwards at Bury tomorrow.

Hi Jarvo,

Yes one red lead has been disconnected from an ESC.

Hi John

I think its time for the bath test......half fill bath......run motors with model held up in air to make sure motors are running correctly.....lower model half way into bath props half in half out of water.... check motors still running correctly...then fully into water....motors must still run correctly.....they can't reverse when they smell water !.....can they?


Can we see photo of props and rudders....the solution may lie elsewhere

I love this problem it's a good un !l

Berty

Hi John, a thought, have you disconnected one of the red leads from the esc's? might be getting duff feedback to the receiver
Mark

The mixer was used because the problem was present with a Y cable splitter. The mixer is Mtroniks WTail mixer and is connected to the rudder. Everything is fine on the bench even full both ways. it is powered by a fully charged 11.1v Lipo

Is the mixer connected to the rudder. When you test on the bench does it work OK if you move the rudder stick fully both ways?.
I suspect the mixer is perhaps the culprit. What mixer unit are you using?
What is your power set up re batteries? Are they all fully charged?

Hi Dave,

I have used two radio systems Planet and Spektrum to see if that was the problem. The problem is the same with both. if you use either ESC and motor there is no problems. The esc were connected direct to the rx and are now connected via a mixer unit. I can not understand how it is fine on the bench but not in the water. I have tried lifting the transmitter to see if is about the height and walking away to see if it distance. Back to the water tomorrow with new ESC's.

John.

Interesting.
What radio system are you using?
Can you try just using one motor and ESC at a time to see if the problem is still present?
You mention a mixer but assume you are now connecting the ESCs direct to the rx?

Hi Berty,

the props and direction of rotation are correct. The motors only rotate in one direction when in the water. They are fine on the bench.

John,

With twin motors,that usually run in alternate directions...I e. One clockwise...one anti clockwise you need 2 different props...one clockwise..one anti etc...are you using the correct props ?