As dodgy said. The other thing is a lot of them don't even carry an I.D.no, just the amp rating. Result? a load of guesswork/trial and error. No magic smoke if you're lucky. I've been lucky so far and my 30 amp ones have been fine Good luck/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////😁👍

Welcome to the magic world of cheap Chinese clone R/C equipment!

Bit more info.
The donor has come back with some basic instructions for the ESC but I already have more than that from my searches.
He also lent me a program 'Card' which is very easy to use and seems to confirm that I have a very basic ESC. The card has 12 levels of settings on the instructions but the ESC only recognises 4 items and then within each item does not have all the setting levels.
Have set it best I can for now but will go find me a better ESC later.
Steve

This 'Cheap Chinese' design, according to the documentation, seems to come in several different (nominal) amp ratings, and, interestingly, in a 'standard car' or in a 'crawler' version.

The one for crawlers - slow rock-climbing cars - is also recommended for tanks, and has a jumper giving the sort of instant reverse we would use for boats. This looks like an example... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Waterproof-Brushed-1060-60A-ESC-For-RC-1-10-Crawler-Car-Tank-Model-Accessory/362488539332?epid=13025976857&hash=item54660028c4:g:ybcAAOSwwdNb7rDO:rk:127:pf:0

Which might help if anyone's browsing cheap brandless ESCs...

Hi All
If you require a brush ESC.
The Hobbyking one is the only one I have found with straight forward/ reverse with NO BRAKE.
Set is with links, but the they only work on Nicads and Lipo batteries.
They will run on 12 volt SLA, but no less!!!!
I am using them in my two Hellen fishing boats with 55 turn rock crawler motors on 2S Lipo on 60% throttle.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbywing-quicrun-60a-2s-3s-waterproof-brushed-esc-for-1-10.html

Canabus

Hi All
I use the Hobbyking car ESC's HK-45A, HK-60A SL and HK-100A
which all use the same program card(HK PROG-CARD).
I use the same setup for all my boat, only changing the battery setting for the 2s, 3S and 4S Lipo.
1 Cutoff Voltage for 3S=10.2 and 4S=13.6
2 Start Power Percent=5%
3 Advance Timing=4
4 Run Mode=2
5 Brake Force=1
6 Drag Brake Force=1
7 Neutral Range=1
8 initial Brake Force=1
9 Reverse Force=1
It works for me.
Canabus

Hi Steve, I have the same problem with the ESCs in my HSL. They are cheap Chinese car models and can be a bit tricky to get into reverse quickly. I have found that either waiting a few seconds in neutral before trying reverse, or going to neutral and flicking the throttle forward a few clicks and back to neutral quickly (in .5 sec) usually sorts it. I think it may be that the motor stops somewhere that the cheaper ESCs can't detect (bit like an old car starter that hits the bald spot on the ring gear and you have to jog it a bit) so you have to move it slightly for it to 'see' it (maybe the capacitors also). Brushed ESCs don't have that problem as the brushes are in constant contact, rather than relying on correct positioning in Brushless motors. You will also find that some Chinese motors are not timed/wound correctly, and you can feel weak or 'floaty' spots between certain magnets which may also cause a problem. Perhaps trying a higher or lower ESC timing by 1 step either way might help if you have that capability.
if it works by just flicking the throttle method, you can just slow down as you come in and take you time finding reverse in a scale like manner (remember the PT109 movie where they went through the shed on the wharf) You can also try swapping the other pairs of wires on the motor (same direction but different pairs). if you are still not happy then it might be time as Doug said, for a better ESC with instructions. Get one which has all the programing features, (fwd, rev , timing, auto batt detection (lipos or NmH etc) starting mode- ie soft,hard, brake etc) this will give you plenty of options for adjustment. Doesn't have to be a marine one, a good known brand car/buggy one will do and if you have any heat problems you can always put a mini fan on it. Water cooled marine ESCs are really only for high amp high speed setups. My 36"HSL has 2x 30A car ESCs running 2x 28/45 2000kv water cooled motors and ESCs never get even warm. Pictured are the ESCs I am using from HK which have an output plug for a fan if needs be. The 3rd pic is the brushless ESC types (EBay, AliExpress) I am using, which have no problems with reverse transition (see vid section re Thornycroft MTB maneuvering) also the HSL vids to give you an idea of how these brushless ESCs perform even with the minor reversing problem. Hope you get it sorted.

Hi Steve,
I don't think I misunderstood at all -
Quote: "If you still have to command reverse twice then the ESC may simply not be capable of normal For/Rev. Although the table indicates that it is."
Sadly this seems to be the case with your curious ESC.
I would dump it and use a reliable unit from a supplier where you can first read all about it's capabilities AND download the specs and operating instructions before ordering.
Worthwhile suppliers do provide this service.
I do my best not to waste my shekels on a pig in a poke.
The Germans have an expression for this sort of experience; "Lerngeld" = Learning money!
Click simply means actuate or 'do it'; i.e. moving control stick or trigger.
A stupid way of expressing it I agree.
Bon chance mon ami. Cheers, Doug 😎
Just saw your edit! Maybe now you realise why he gave it away! 😉

You misunderstood me Doug.
Yes, it is in forward and reverse but will not go from forward straight into reverse. you have to come back to centre, go into reverse (nothing happens), back to centre then into reverse.

I found another set of instructions that described this...see pic.
Not sure I understand what they mean by 'click'.

Steve

Edit to add...I was given the motor and ESC just before christmas and did not know then that I would need to program it. Since knowing the guy has been on leave so I can't ask him.

Hi Steve,
Sorry to have to correct you BUT changing the Running & reverse Mode IS described in the instructions posted, see Step 3 , as shown in attached Snipping Tool clip.
After selecting 'Running Mode' as the parameter to change (Step 2) wait for the two beeps close together. Then immediately shove the throttle stick forward.
You should then hear the 'special tone' which tells you that you selection has been saved. Move the stick full back within 2 secs of this tone and you exit the programming mode and all should be stored.
If you still have to command reverse twice then the ESC may simply not be capable of normal For/Rev. Although the table indicates that it is.
I often wonder why folk buy this stuff without instructions!
Just to save a few shekels? Or was it found in a flea market or donated?
Cheers, Doug 😎

Wired it all up again and confirmed you are right Doug it is in the 'brake' mode.
However in the instructions sent me by DG there is no option for turning it off. also I have found similar instructions for others that look the same from the pictures and they have the same options.
So, looks like I'm stuck with it.
Steve

Hi Dodgy, believe I did mention that about 8 days ago.
I discovered the same thing with my Turnigy ESCs.
You have to change the operating mode to For/Rev instead of For/Brake/Rev, as described in the instruction leaflet I posted above.
Cheers, Doug 😎

"..
Worked through the instructions and it made beeping and squawking noises in what seemed the right places but still no reverse. The increase in revs does now cover the whole of the stick travel above the mid point so I has changed something.
Lost the will to live after 2 hours so went and worked on something else.
Steve..."

Just a thought - may not be applicable, but we often share our reversible ESCs with the car fraternity. And some of them have an odd reverse.

For some cars, you may be happy with straight forward and reverse, but for racing this is not ideal. Dropping into reverse if you move the stick/trigger back past neutral would make the car uncontrollable on a corner. instead, the racing car boys have a system whereby the forward stick increases speed, while 'reverse' performs dynamic braking by shorting the motor terminals (or perhaps even regenerative braking!). To a boaty, this would seem as if the forward stick worked, while reverse did nothing.

These racing car ESC programs DO allow a proper reverse. The way you usually get to it is to bring the stick back to reverse, then forward to neutral, then back to reverse again. it's a two-stage process - call for reverse twice. if you go into reverse, then forward, then back again you won't get reverse - it has to be reverse, neutral, reverse.

Which is fine if you are manoeuvring a car into a parking space, but rather clumsy for a boat....

Thanks for the reply.
I think I did all of those steps.
Will have another go in a couple of days. For now the white wine and beeping motor will not be a good combination.
'Merry' Christmas and all that.
Steve

Steve, have you calibrated the throttle first? (read 2 and 2.2) on the instructions, You have to give the ESC a full, low and mid-point throttle position before you can start the programming. Plug in motor and ESC BEC lead into throttle position in REC. Turn on TX and give it full throttle. (make sure motor is held firmly as it may kick hard if started) Program - plug in batt wait 2 secs for beeps then wait 5 secs for musical tone (now in program mode) wait for 1,2,3 or 4 beeps (asks which program you want and will keep cycling through till you chose one) as soon as you hear the no of beeps for the program you want quickly pull the stick to the bottom and wait for the reply,- it will now cycle through the programs in step 3. Choose the one you want in the same manner as the last selection but by moving the stick to full throttle (if you miss it it will cycle round again) Hold it there and it will reply (musical beeps) wait and the program will return to step 2 and you can select the next setting to enter and repeat the process. Safest to set Auto battery and then the others as per chart especially min batt volts. Once happiness filled, follow the Program Exit instructions (step 4) Also as 'RN' previously mentioned, if you have a Futaba, you may have to reverse the throttle to make it all work. When finished, unplug batt, turn off TX, re start everything (TX, Batt/RX) and check. AS A PRECAUTION,MAKE THROTTLE NEUTRAL BEFORE RE STARTING IF YOU HAVE SET FWD AND REV, OR LOW IF NOT. BE AWARE THROTTLE MAY BE REVERSED ALSO). You may have to have a few goes but you will get there and realize it's not that difficult after all . if in doubt just un-plug the battery and start steps again. Just think of it like the ESC is asking you "do you want this"? at a particular set of beeps, and you are replying by moving the stick, or ignoring that question and moving to the next one. if you are using a pistol grip TX just let the trigger go and it will give you neutral/center (as per instructions 2.2

Worked through the instructions and it made beeping and squawking noises in what seemed the right places but still no reverse. The increase in revs does now cover the whole of the stick travel above the mid point so I has changed something.
Lost the will to live after 2 hours so went and worked on something else.
Steve

"...So how did you get to "SEAKING" instructions from TOPEDGE?..."

Via this site - https://manualsbrain.com/en/search/?utf8=✓&brand_id=17847&category_id=2936&q=sco60b which I found by googling a selection of words which were likely to appear in any esc manual, together with the code designator.

I purposely left the word 'Topedge' out, because I know that most of the lesser-known brand names are 'badge engineering', indeed, there is unlikely to be one single factory making the item. if you put in an order for 100 of these items you could have them badged as 'Steve-D' if you liked, and made in half a dozen separate locations with no connection to each other....

Typically, these items were designed in the West by a known brand company, the tooling and designs are shipped over to China where they are replicated, modified somewhat, and then they become 'general property' that any factory can make if it wants. The original code (or fragments of it) is often the only thing that survives....

So how did you get to "SEAKING" instructions from TOPEDGE?

In any case many thanks.

I have a lot of playing to do tonight
Steve

Might this help? 'Google-hacking' is a skill that needs to be learned :) ....

All attempts to find instructions have failed.

Doug,
Oops, I guess it is obvious that I am new to this posting thing....
Joe

Steve,
I also described the 'brake' function!
"Also I have found that many reversible ESCs are set up by default (Out Of The Box) for cars with a brake function activated.
This means that before going astern it just brakes the motor and stops.
You then have to give the stick another shove backwards to actually go astern. Irritating but correctable by changing the ESC mode from
Forward / Brake / Reverse to just Forward / Reverse.😉"

You need to find the instructions (Google?) to see how to change this mode and which modes the ESC is capable of. it might not be capable of reverse! Cheers, Doug 😎

Mornin' Joe,
It's Steve having problems with his ESC, not me 😉
Ciao, Doug 😎

Doug,
Don't know the specifics about your controller but I have programmed different types of ESC just recently and they seem to have one thing in commen. Set the throttle stick to center position while programing the ESC, this will establish the off point, then you push up or down and get forward or reverse. if you want to change up or down, You can tell your TX which direction you want to be forward and which direction is reverse.
Hope that helps, regards Joe

Right I'm in a similar position. Plugged it all in an just got beeping noises. After some fiddling it all fired up.
But, somehow I have programmed it but don't know with what info. The motor will run but not both ways. is off at the mid position and is at full chat with less than half lever travel.

The ESC is a Top Edge SC060B and I have been unable to find any instructions.
So, what can be programmed in?
How do I get it back into programming mode?
The instructions earlier in this thread mention a 'brake mode' but give no indication what this is?

Help

That sounds good Martin.👍
So all you need to do now is be a bit quick on the trigger at the weekend.
Shove it forward as soon as you hear the first beep, then switch the ESC OFF. Then power everything down (RX then TX) and when you switch on again all should be hunky-dory. The Lone Ranger rides again 😉
Cheers, Doug

Doug, the Flysky comes pre-bound at the factory. Civilised! I have tried it with an old servo and it worked a treat. Haven't got anything done on the ESC yet. I'll try again at the weekend.

Cheers,
Martin

Arun now sorted. Programming card did not work so I translated the pidgin english instructions for the ESC and it worked using the Tx. I now have forward and reverse, correct prop rotation and no battery protection. Also the water cooling system for the ESC works with the water exiting from the exhausts on the stern. On the down side the nav lights have stopped working! Pictures of installation and finished boat later.

Well done that man! Bravo Zulu 👍
At the 'more beeps' stage I think maybe you should have moved the stick back to tell the ESC where reverse is. Your Guru should sort that OK.
Also I have found that many reversible ESCs are set up by default (Out Of The Box) for cars with a brake function activated.
This means that before going astern it just brakes the motor and stops.
You then have to give the stick another shove backwards to actually go astern. Irritating but correctable by changing the ESC mode from
Forward / Brake / Reverse to just Forward / Reverse.😉
Have fun, cheers, Doug 😎
PS Pics / vid of the action some time ? 👍

The Arun lives! All wiring completed this morning, Tx turned on, stick full forward, boat turned on, esc bleeped, stick to neutral, more bleeps, advanced throttle, both props turn in correct direction for ahead propulsion, motors stop when returned to neutral. No reverse yet so it looks like the esc will need programming. Down at Derby Model Boat Club tomorrow to consult our programming guru. Result!👍

BTW Martin, going back to your original post-
"Plugged tested (6.2 volts) Nimhs into Rx and it starts flashing ..."
Did you check that the RX is Bound to the TX?
E.g. by trying it with just a simple servo before messing with the ESC?

Doug

You're as BAD as me Boaty 😉 but I had a Rover 2000 with fully reclining seats back then - no problem 😁

Re 3 wires on a brushless. Simply put, this is analogous to a 3 phase AC motor (such as used in bathroom extractor fans etc).
If you apply a single phase AC voltage to an AC motor it just twitches backwards and forwards in the same place as the voltage crosses from the positive to the negative half cycle. Thus 3 phases are applied giving 3 'shoves' in sequence to keep things moving. A starter capacitor is also needed to give the motor a 'belt' to shove it off.

Similarly with a brushless:
the ESC senses where the motor armature is in relation to the magnet poles and applies a DC pulse to the next armature coil in sequence.
When you shove the throttle up the pulse width lengthens applying a longer shove and thus more energy and speed.
Pulling the throttle back with a reversible ESC just turns the pulse train upside down so that negative DC pulses are applied to the motor, reversing the magnetic field created in the armature and thus the rotation.
Simple really.
It's the sensing and timing done inside the ESC that's the tricky bit, which is why we had to wait about a hundred years from the invention of the AC motor (Nikolai Tesla) until we could use them in models - thanks to micro-electronics.
Here endeth today's seminar 😁😁
Happy brushlessing Folks, cheers, Doug 😎
Hmmm, perhaps that's why electric toothbrushes use brushed motors! 😁😜

Hi Westquay

It sounds Doug has got it right. I only went over to brushless 3 years ago when I returned to fast electric. All my existing models at the time had brushed motors installed and I did become confused with the "new technology".

Having three wires from the motor to the ESC was a bit difficult to comprehend but as the boat was an RTR it was helpful due to having an instruction manual with it.
It just takes time and experience to get use to such changes but it will be right in the end.

My only experience of a non starter was back in 1976, this being the only time I had a date with a married woman. I had a Lotus Elan then and there was no room in the back and it would have been a waste of time calling the AA to resolve it.😁😎

Boaty

Mornin' Martin,
I've never used a trigger throttle (and never want to!) but I suspect that yanking back is Full throttle, which means you need to push it forward for programming!! Corresponding to stick back (or down) on a normal two stick set. Which is motor stop on such an aircraft ESC with no bacckuds.
Cheers, Doug 😎
PS: just checked the manual for a typical Flysky Pistol Grip set (usual Chinglish gibberish🤔) but it confirms that trigger hard back is 'Full Ahead' !!
BTW: since you appear to be using an aircraft ESC on a Car/Boat radio set (not a good idea!) make sure that before you switch on the RX that the throttle trigger is pushed right forward. Otherwise the motor will go off half cock straight away. if you release the trigger it will probably go to the 'Half Ahead' position. So mind your fingers.😡

Thanks, Doug,
I take it that throttle down would mean throttle back with a pistol set like the Flysky? Also, it's a Lipo I want to tell it about. I went nuts and bought one as it's a brushless motor.
So as soon as I hear a beep I yank back on the throttle trigger? Let's hope it doesn't just beep continuously like it did before.

Foghorn? I had no idea it was there.

Norn Airish Snookrr soo et ezz. Don't do sports.

Cheers,
Martin

See attached Martin,
Same procedure to open as with the pdf.

"Foghorn? What foghorn? "
The one that sounds to tell me that a new post has arrived on the site.
See above the list of Active users on the right of the screen - [Toggle Sound].

"Sullivan," Ronnie 'The Rocket' O'Sullivan.

"Trump?" Judd 'The Ace in the Pack' Trump.
Finalists in the Northern Ireland Open Snooker Championship.
One of the 'Home Nations Series'; England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Alles klar Herr Kommissar?
Cheers, Doug 😎

Doug, the instructions tell me to do what you guys have as to order of switching on, but the beep bit doesn't actually explain what to do which is what I meant by what it means.

Foghorn? What foghorn? Sullivan, Trump?

Martin

Hi Martin,
You don't have to know what it MEANS you just have to do exactly what it says. it's written in surprisingly good and clear English compared with most!

Even with the old 'dumb' RC the rule was always TX on first and off last.
Just to stop the servos and motors going bonkers and maybe chopping your fingers off.😡 Take it slowly and go step by step and you'll be OK.

Cheers, Doug
BTW; thanks for waking me up with the foghorn 👍 nearly missed the 4th frame of the Sullivan vs Trump duel. No not THAT Trump 😁

Doug, just managed to download the PDF. I hadn't noticed the download sign and it just put up a bigger PDF picture. BUT...what the hell all that stuff means I have no idea. 1 Beep, 2 Beeps, 3 beeps. My motor just beeped continually. And no, I didn't know the Tx had to go on first either. it's been a LONG time since I played with RC gear of any sort and that was much simpler than all this modern stuff.
I've put it all away now, so I'll have another go during the week and see if I can get any sense from it.
I can't ask any locals as they're all old tuggers with basic electricks.

Cheers,
Martin

It's not rocket science Selwyn, just stick to the rules and you'll be alright.
If you're not sure about something, just ASK before the magic smoke appears 😡
There's lots of 'been there done that' guys here on the site who can help out.
Cheers, Doug 😎

Thanks Doug, all this electrickery baffles me but I have managed to pass the first hurdle, soldering the EC5 cannectors to the power leads! I'll post as things progress.
Selwyn

Sounds good to me Selwyn 👍
That board is a sensible (essential) idea in that setup. Stops a stronger battery trying to charge the weaker one.👍
I have several Action Electronics modules as well (duplicated some 😁)
They're good, well made stuff.
Anyway, your brushless ESCs will 'see' 12V so setting them up as running on NiMh should do the trick. if you set them up as 'LiPo' they might think it is a 3S 11.1V battery and try to let the volts go down to 9V before cutting off!! Not good for the SLAs 😡
IF they assume it is a 4S 14.8V Lipo they will cut off at 4x3.0 i.e. 12V which will drastically shorten your run time; you'd have to keep the SLAs near fully charged (13.6V) all the time.
Bon chance mon ami, let us know how it goes.
All the best, Doug 😎

Hi Doug
I’m using 2 x12v SLA wired through an action electronics parallel board to give 12v. I hope to feed the power through the existing action electronics fused power distribution board which will feed the two esc and all my on board lighting, radar scanner etc.
Cheers Selwyn

Hi Haverlock,
Good point! I took that as a 'given' since it is 'standard procedure' to stop servos and motors going uncontrolled wild.
Rule for the RX is OLOF, On Last Off First.
Cheers, Doug

Hi rapidair65,
Most Brushless ESCs seem to assume that you are using either LiPo or NiMh batteries. it needs to know which so it can set the correct cut off voltage per cell, e.g. 3.=V for Lipo. From the applied voltage it can work out how many cells and the correct cut off.

If you are using two SLA I assume 2x6V in series giving 12V.
So tell the ESC that you are using NiMh and it will assume 10 cells @ 1.2V / cell.
I'll be interested to hear how you get on as an SLA has nominally 2V per cell!! You should get away with it as the ESC checks the total voltage applied - it has no access to individual cells 😉 it will probably let the battery voltage go down to 11V before stopping the motor(s)😲
Good luck, Cheers, Doug 😎

Hi Martin, maybe! Maybe not! You might be lucky.
Check the RX with just a servo plugged in somewhere.
Then try setting up the ESC according to the instructions I sent.
Basically all you have to do is tell it what type of battery you are using. Then it sets the correct 'Cut Off' voltage.

BTW: since this is a 'One way only' ESC before you switch the system on make sure the throttle stick is pulled right back. Otherwise the motor will start up straight away. Mind yer fingas!! 😡
Also check that the throttle channel is not reversed at the TX - like most Futaba sets for some crazy reason - or again the motor will start up with the throttle pulled back.

PDF: as Steve says; click on the Icon, then on [Download] in the top left corner. Windows should then offer you the choice of 'Open' or 'Save'.
Click 'Save' and Windows will ask where you want to put the file.

Cheers, Doug 😎

first question which no one seems to have mentioned is :- did you have the transmitter switched on BEFORE you powered up the receiver/ esc ? if not de power the receiver and try switching on the transmitter .

Most of these systems have an interlock to prevent the motor running if there is no transmitter.

I can only sympathise, I have had these lecky problems since I started building some time back. My solution was to find a friendly "electric savvy" builder to help me out by wiring one of my boats for me, I now have a system I Can use as a pattern.👍

Following this with some interest as I am about to convert my Arun lifeboat to a brushless set up using Turnigy Aerodrive motors and marine esc. Hoping to keep the two lead acid batteries for power as they make good ballast!

Before Doug shouts at you.
Click on the PDF, it opens as if it a photo, top left click on download, go find it in your downloads.

Steve