Excellent Ken,
Looking forward to it.

Martin555.

Hi Ken,
Are you going to post your experiments.?
I would like to see them.

Martin555.

Re - (it's actually quite addictive)" very funny.

Don't worry about power cuts Martin, I have truckloads of LiPos, (you're thinking what if they go flat in a power cut ?) well, there's always the car to plug the LiPo charger into, (or to pinch 12v from)😊😁😂, not to mention a 900w generator if all else fails! (used that quite often in long power cuts so I can have lights and TV going, - run a cord from gen in my garden shed😀, handy item! Failing even that, I'll just burn a tree in the back yard, - lovely smoke (best Windsor Davies voice)😂
JB

Re "But what can you get to quit making smoke units.

Saw a vid on You Tube about someone modifying the Heng long smokers with a Thermistor. Reckoned they were a lot easier than the coils. You shouldn't have any fires if you dont get the coils red hot as they make smoke just under that point.

I used to rebuild the odd bathroom ceiling fan they threw out at work years ago (used in some of the offices, dunnys etc. What used to happen was they fitted them in rooms with no fresh air intake, so the PTC (I think) thermistor between the coils on the brushless motors burnt out (just circulating its own air). All you had to do was replace them with a bit of 5A fuse wire and you had a good fan, (some were only months old). Fitted one in the bathroom of my new house,- perfect. Saved about $80. Gave a few to friends as well for workshops etc.

Never mentioned the fix to work but they would not have been able to re-use them for ins reasons (not being 'as manufactured') although perfectly safe to use.
Same fix works on home pedestal fans as well,-they stop due to lack of lube in the bushes and cook the thermistor. People throw a perfectly good fan away but fuse wire, oil the bushes and away you go for another 10 yrs!
JB

Hi Mike,
A Thermistor is a resistor whose resistance varies with it's temperature.
PTC means Positive Temperature Coefficient.
Which means that the resistance increase with temperature.
Thermistor heaters come in various forms from tiny to huge and are used instead of nichrome wire for all sorts of heating jobs such as hair driers, bathroom fan heaters and in cars.
They have the advantage that they can be designed for specific temperature ranges and when they reach their maximum design temp they stay there as long as the volts are applied😊 Possible disadvantages for our purposes are the initial heat-up time and operating current. Current is typically high while heating up but falls dramatically when at operating temperature when the resistance is at maximum. I=V/R 😉. We'll see.
After reading that article I started trolling my usual suppliers for suitable versions.
No luck yet, either too small or way too big ☹️
Anyway, I'm concentrating more on the alchemy side at the moment.
I have several commercial mini smokers, e.g. for HO/OO scale locos etc., to experiment with. So I'm attacking the problem of the elusive 'Black Smoke'.
As soon as I find some suitable thermistors heaters I'll be off and running🤞
Cheers, Doug 😎

Come on then Doug let your talents be tested and design a PTC Thermistor Heater version, whatever a PTC is?
PS I do it myself but my December issue hasn't arrived yet (not much chance!)

"But what can you get to quit making smoke units. ?"
Burnt down workshop?🔥🔥
Incinerated model? 🔥😮😭
BTW just been reading an article (in December Model Boats, see HMSIron Duke, Broadside in miniature) about a smoke generator using a PTC Thermistor Heater instead of nichrome coils. No chance of fires😊
Doug 😎

Hi Jb,
I thought you'r comment:-

"(it's actually quite addictive)" very funny.

Smoking is addictive
Vaping Is addictive
Making smoke units is now addictive. LOL!

you'r hooked LOL!

You can get a stick on patch to help to stop smoking.

You can cut back on the nicotine percentage to stop vaping.

But what can you get to quit making smoke units. ?

Maybe a power cut LOL!!!

Martin555.

Hi JB thanks for that info. Will be taking your advice and building my smoke unit at the start of the build as I can see a lot of experiments before it comes right and the weight will mean less ballast is required. Just got to finish the model am working on at the moment.
Elsrickle

Appreciate the comment Elsrickle, I'm still having fun with new ideas as the possibilities are endless and open to your imagination. I'm sure you'll have fun experimenting (it's actually quite addictive). I think if anyone is thinking of building a smoke unit for a new boat, the idea might be to get one going well, then design in a place to mount it with easy access for filling/replacing element etc. Not the sort of thing to be completely built in. I like the ready made coils shown as they are tidy and easy to replace.

Weight wise for eg, - the vertical vape tank version, (model X) weighs 100g (1/2 the weight of a 540 motor) and the alloy box coil only version was the same weight. The model X is 45mm Diam x 55mm H, so not that large considering, (40mm waste pipe with stop ends) and keeps it all tidy. A complete tank could be used just as a screw fitting (threads are very fine and hard to produce) without the glass and placed in a smaller tube and packed with cotton wool (to be soaked in smoke liquid) and air pushed through the element. So many versions are possible.
JB

Hi JB excellent detail in the photos. Now I have grasped the way these things work. Will definitely be building one in future build.
You have done a great job there
Elsrickle

I'm really going to have to have a chat with your mother about you Martin!😂
And now as MC Hammer said - "it's hamm-ock time. Evenin'
JB

Jb,
OOPS!! what have i just done.LOL!

Martin555.

Interesting Martin! Thinks💡💥☀️

Jb,
How about a smoker using a Humbrol paint tinlet ?

Martin555.

That one turned out quite well Martin. I was on the lookout for some sort of can to put the tank in and was prowling round our local Bunnings home depot/hardware store and was in the plumbing section when I suddenly had an epiphany. Remembered I had 40mm waste pipe at home so I bought 2 end caps and a bit of sanding drilling and fitting later, voila' version X. not that small but plenty small enough to go in most boats and very easy to make. There is a turn of loose wire inside so I can lift the tank up to fill it.

Strange that it would not work as planned with a bottom air feed, and had to work in reverse. Not to worry, it makes houseloads of smoke, is self contained and easy to fill, (end caps are just a push fit and the top holds the tank in place by the mouth piece) which is pretty much what I was after. I know we can use the vape coils now and I'm sure I can make a small version with just a coil (same idea as the alloy one, - just need to make or find a smaller can) not too worried at the moment as I think I have enough smoke devices for now.

Be interesting now Myself and Graham have kicked it off, to see what the rest of the crew come up with (I think there are a few under way at the moment). I'm sure no one is going to pay silly prices for the commercial smokers now! (which are pretty much what we have done but in a colorful tin) when you can do it yourself.

Seen a few vids on You Tube of people making their own by winding coils on f/glass rope (stove door seals). They work ok but more effort to make. Ready made coils are so cheap (wound coils and replacement screw ins) that it's not worth mucking around. You can buy boxes of various wound coils very cheaply if you make something to use those in. Endless fun.
Thank-you E-Cigs!😊
JB

No Jb the white tube version.

Martin555.

Re- That is looking like a very smart little unit. (photo 2)

Was that the 'Blue Box' version you meant Martin?
JB

Re- Do the job properly, don't let your crew freeze, install a stove in the aft cabin

That was mine Nerys, sites got the jitters again, another also doubled up on Kens reply???
JB

All fixed JB 😎 Seems server sometimes gets confused and it's bits in a twist!😮 "Ooooh, nasty!"

Hi Jb,
That is looking like a very smart little unit. (photo 2)
Excellent work.

Martin555.

Here are the various smoker versions I've made and the vape coils and tank I have used. Also the Heng Long smoker in standard form and the modified forms - box with fan, fan on tank and one converted to a pulsing air pump (red side outlet) All items were bought from Ali Express, but can be found on EBay etc. I have used the Vaporesso brand tank and coil which seem well made. The 'VECO' tank I bought comes in a proper box with authentication laser sticker and a spare tank glass, spare element and spare o-ring set, very nice!

You will need to make an adapter if you use these, as they are made to be part of a complete device which houses the battery (which you don't need) The coil or tank have the body as one contact and an insulated inner (with coil) which is the other contact (see pics mine and Grahams to see methods used. I've shown here the independant coil attachment and the tank attachment methods I used in my applications.

There are dozens of vape manufacturers and device types so it's up to you to work out how you will do it, $$ etc. I know these versions work well as long as you can get good controllable air flow and and control / set the voltage (regulators cheap on Ali Express in various forms).

Happy smoking!😊or😉
JB, R&D at the Smoketory😉

Ken,

No, an air pump should give you a steady flow of smoke. Something like the one in the link would work. I used one I salvaged from a blood pressure monitor. The pulsing smoke I have on my exhaust smoker is produced by a bit of electronics switching the air pump on and off.
Graham93

This is the Model X smoker just created at R&D. It uses the previously mentioned (below) vape tank now fitted inside a highly technical chamber (waste pipe and stop ends). The previous drawing I did showing this method has now been revised, and airflow input position changed from bottom to top, as the bottom input forced the fluid through the wick for some reason and flooded the coil.

Should have worked theoretically as it should have mimicked sucking on the mouthpiece but theory ain't fact so hence the change. Works really well now and if you blow on the tube gently, you can fill the room with smoke in real quick time, (lungs are now well lubricated😊)
Could have gone for a smaller tube but I wanted to have an air gap, as the vape tank gets hot on 2.5V after a while (too hot to hold). Might make a tinfoil shield/heatsink around it as well.
JB

Do the job properly, don't let your crew freeze, install a stove in the aft cabin.

Nerys

😎

Hi Ken,

I think Martin has got it about right. Being able to adjust the voltage on the e-cig coil will give you control over the volume of smoke produced. The DC- DC converter I listed in an earlier post in this thread can be adjusted to set that voltage. You do need an air pump to push air through the e-cig. I don’t think a fan will work as well.

I use diluted vegetable glycerine as smoker fluid. Dilution doesn’t seem critical. I use something like 75:25 glycerine:water. You might find diluting it more will reduce the smoke if you are getting too much.

Graham93

Hi Ken,
Re: "I’m hoping to produce a small stream"
You will need to have a steady constant flow of air passing over the heating coil using a fan or air pump.

You will have to experiment with the coil voltage as you need it hot enough vaporise the liquid but not to hot to burn out the wick.

Depending on the liquid you use you will also have to experiment.

My suggestion would be to use vegetable glycerine diluted to about 50/50 with water as a starting point.

The other members that have been doing some fantastic experiments will probably be better suited to answer your question than me.

Martin555.

"if the order was to come for our patrol to make smoke, what do we do, have all hands manning the side and vaping?"
It's all just Smoke and Mirrors Cdr, Nerys 😉
In the old days the Chief ERA would have been ordered to inject fuel oil into the firebox, thus creating clouds of thick black oily smoke. Something he would be severely reprimanded for during normal operations. Betraying their position!!
S'pose these days trying to inject heavy oil into a LiPo or NiMh battery wouldn't have much effect 🤔
Anyway, we don't expect the BC Patrol Squadron to get into a battle situation with a superior surface force requiring such extreme evasion measures. Besides, it's rendered useless these days by radar!
😎

Fleet, I wouldn't dream of it, eat as much of those exotic things as you like and if you want to disappear in a cloud of cigar smoke, by all means do so. We are all far enough away that we can't see you anyway. The problem is, if the order was to come for our patrol to make smoke, what do we do, have all hands manning the side and vaping?

Cheers, Nerys

"'FLEET WILL MAKE SMOKE'"
My dear Cdr. Nerys,
are you perhaps insinuating that I have been eating too many jalapenos or that I should tone down my Beef Madras!!?? 😋🔥💥
Now then, where did I hide my last few Cuban Corona Coronas? 😉
😎

Hi Martin,

Think I'm too old to know about that sort of thing. It's all hidden in a cloud of smoke.

Nerys

Hi Nerys.
Quite a lot of the younger vapour's do what they call cloud chasing, they make coils that are on the limits of safety and they also make their mix of fluid to produce as much smoke as possible.

I think it is to make them feel big.

Martin555.

Being neither technically minded or a user of vape things may I observe that from what I have seen of the cloud of smoke frequently surrounding vape users, I would have thought it best in modelling used for smoke screens.
'FLEET WILL MAKE SMOKE'
'

Re: Please be so kind as to post details of your material suppliers, including appropriate URLs.

And here is the DC-DC converter I have used to drop the LiPo 2S voltage down to 3v for the coil.

The only other items are an air pump which I salvaged from a defunct blood pressure monitor and the control electronics which I scratch built.

Graham93

Doug,

Re: Please be so kind as to post details of your material suppliers, including appropriate URLs.

Here is the H2 atomizer I used. Price is a little bit more than I paid.

Graham93

I thought you were going to say that you didn't want to disappear in a puff of smoke LOL!

Sleep well my friend.

Martin555.

Off to the hammock Martin sun's coming up soon and I don't want to catch fire😂 Evening.
JB

Jb,
Looking forward to your next reports.

Martin555.

Re - FLEET TO GENTS OF THE R&D DIRECTORATE; SMOKE DIVISION

Will find info in files and report in due course, (once work on the bridge finished, decks scrubbed and the sea grass attended to) Would have the Ensign do it but he's away on Mermaid patrol (❤️🐱 - encrypted) and out of radio range.
JB- R&D -Smoke Envelopment Division.

Jb,
How about making an insulating jacket that you could just wrap around secured with a small piece of velcro.

Martin555.

FLEET TO GENTS OF THE R&D DIRECTORATE; SMOKE DIVISION
Please be so kind as to post details of your material suppliers, including appropriate URLs. Info required for submission to FLEET Finance Director Gisela for approval of expenditure 🙄😉
Thanks in advance👍
FLEET// 😎
PS thinking of using my little Proxxon lathe to turn some insulating parts from perspex / acrylic rod?

That was one of my thoughts Graham, ease of access to the tank etc for filling or servicing the coil. I'm still looking for small alloy or metal boxes or cans to try ideas out with (like the old alloy film cans, -have one somewhere just don't know where). Might have to start trolling on EBay etc or maybe the car accessory shops.
For the latest effort I just need a can slightly larger than the tank (room to fit tinfoil round tank for heat dissipation) or I could wrap the tank in silicone tube and run water through it. Gets too hot to touch after a few mins on 2v, needs to be kept away from leads and batteries etc. Could easily warp the hull if sitting against it! Introducing air from the bottom of the can might help cool it as well as pushing the smoke out.
JB

Hi JB,

Yes, it still has the expansion tank wrapped around the original 2ml e-cig. The photo I just posted was taken before the expansion tank was fitted. The expansion tank is glued in place with Tensol acrylic glue so it won’t come off easily, and more importantly it won’t leak.

In practice, I have found that the smoker doesn’t use much fluid. I last filled it around 2 weeks ago, and I’ve been conducting trials in the workshop, and two trials on the lake. The tank is still 90% full. At that rate, I probably won’t need to refill it until the New Year! That’s not a bad thing as, tucked away in the engine room, it isn’t too easy to get to.

Graham93

Re Looking good. I think using e-cig tanks is the way to go.
It's looking that way Graham, as it saves a bit of mucking about, although with a lathe you could turn up some interesting bits and pieces for a custom unit, (lathe is on my wish list when I win lotto😂) I like the end cap you've made, makes it quite streamlined. Are you still using the big tank you made, or do you find that there is enough juice std for a few demos?
JB

Re - I have been given a number of the units the same as the ones in jbkiwi 's reply pictures.

Don't worry Mike, having too much fun playing around with them, (sort of addictive!)
JB

Hi Graham,
That unit looks good and it will definitely fit in a smaller boat.

Martin555.

JB,

Looking good. I think using e-cig tanks is the way to go. There seem to be lots available. I've used an H2 tank and coil. The tank, with the coil cost me £1.75. I also bought 5 extra coils for £3.99 although I haven't needed these yet as the original coil is still going strong.

I made a plug for the end of the tank, similar to yours. It is a push fit into the threaded end. I've sealed it with silicone and secured it with a couple of screws through the side of the tank connector. The plug is drilled out to make it hollow. A brass screw fitted in a threaded hole in the end makes electrical contact with the centre pin of the coil. The other connection is made to the body of the tank connector using one of the securing screws. There is also an air connection to the plug which allows the pumped air to pass through the coil, and then out through the original mouthpiece. Sorry I don't have more pictures, but it is installed in the boat and I don't want to dismount it all just to get some more photos.
Graham93

I'll second that Elsrickle 👍
😎

This is one member who would like to see them
Elsrickle

Hi Michael,
I would really like to see your experiments.
I hope you post them as i am sure other members would like to see them too.

Martin555.

Hi Martin following this with interest I have been given a number of the units the same as the ones in jbkiwi 's reply pictures. They are from an ex vapour, so I am experimenting with them, but don't either of you give up vaping yet as you need to finish the project
Keep it up