"I hope David manages to make the model's now he has some measurements."
I sincerely hope so, but seriously doubt it Martin 🤔
😎

Would need more than one of us Bill,
Having followed this sad story for some time, and traced it back some 8 years, on various other forums, as far as Wells-Boi (David) and his models 🙄 are concerned, and several decades re the boats history, this is at least the fourth or fifth mention of a new owner and restoration plans.
Realistically after at least 4 decades of neglect there can be nothing left to restore.
(Maybe use Ron's plans to recreate the boat?)
Must be at least as much of a Pipe Dream as Wells-Boi's idea to make models of Remus (and her sister Romulus) in the original oak and pitch-pine. A sad story which goes back at least 8 years.😐
After leaving us, apparently because we gave him 'too much advice on how to proceed which he didn't need or want' 🙄, I have followed his progress on another model boat forum: he rubbished us despite our help (Ron even drew plans for him👍), asked all the same questions again, result: no answers and NO progress! Nothing published yet.
A man with problems, very sad.☹️
Doug.
Scroll way down and you can see more of this sad story and history of the boats, dredged up by Ron and myself.

So right Bill space is also an issue some times.
Rick

I agree Mike.
If only as an individual we had the time,money and enthusiasm to do a restoration.
What a project.
Regards Bill.

That looks one sad boat. From a condition point of view

Thank you for the update Ron.
I hope David manages to make the model's now he has some measurements.

Martin555.

You might all remember when we were being asked by David to find information on a fishing boat name Remus? Well, he contacted me today, and here was his email: “Subject:
Hello Ron

I managed to get to see Remus last week and take the measurment that i wanted. Unfortunately its not in a good way as the owner has not done anything so its been neglected .The deck has sunk and has let water in but I think the hull is sound as the hull is holding water in when the tide is out. .Apparently another new owner wants to restore it
I have had my second covid jab so feel a bit happyer about travelin but not meeting to many people”

David

Hi JB,
Ref 'Royalist'; a Modified Dido class - some history of her on WIKI -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Royalist_(89)

BTW: couldn't have been the BIOS battery causing my PC problem.
I could still access the BIOS settings, so I think the system drive was corrupted when I forced it to restart when it froze. The drive can not now be read ☹️
Cheers, Doug 😎

Hi Guys,
I think the time has come to call a halt!
Red and Ian; Two of your recent posts were Flagged by David as 'Hateful'.
See attached Snip-Pic.
In addition I received the following PM from him yesterday.
"ok i have had enough!!I asked Martin rep[etedly to have posts deleted when they were not what i asked for .yet i still get posts fromthe like of ian H after he said he was out .
Maybe you all think iam stubbon maybe iam but i will ask for help when an if i feel i need it. I will not stand by anyone telling me what i need to do or asume i dont know anout wjhat iam doing .
So as your a mod delete the posts that are against my whishes or you can delete my account"

An unprecedented step to publish a PM I know.
But justified I feel given the circumstances.
The two superfluous Flaggings today were the last straw and I feel that I now have no option but to comply with David's wishes and block his account.
Several of us have bent over backwards to try to help David but he seems to be 'advice resistant' and has become a disturbing factor, as I have seen also happened on at least one other forum - some 8 years or so ago on the same subject!
Sad, the man obviously has problems but I can't let him make them ours.
Best regards All, stay safe and keep on boat building👍
Cheers, Doug 😎

Yes seen it all before. They have this picture of the perfect model. Never gets finished. Lost count of the models I have built in 75years. Still not got the perfect one yet. 😎

Wellsboi actually needs some experience on model boat building and materials used. I have suggested this and got shot down in flames. Building a Carvel planked hull isn't something I would try as a first timer! I suggested a kit build so as to gain a little bit of experience.

Hi Peter, just one of those people probably. Had a guy in the helicopter club who was the same. You'd spend hours sorting stuff out for him for various projects so they would work, and he'd go and do something totally different every time, and stuff it up. Needless to say I stopped bothering in the end.

JB

Similar thing happened to me years ago Doug, went to sleep at the computer and woke up to find the same message - no DOS detected☹️, never got it going again, think the pull starter cord broke😂 My next HP did a similar thing (trying to start, then stopping before it did, -ECU fans starting etc) Dove into the guts and found it was just the BIOS battery, -replaced that, reset the clock and it was away. THEN, my newer HP Pavillion 23 did the same,- new battery and all was well. Did you try the battery? they only last maybe 5yrs.

Something to cheer you up, - found a great pic of 'Royalist' in Queen Charlotte sound, way back, (probably 60s) Might have mentioned,- a friend of my parents was the ships surgeon (RNZN)

JB

Saw Wellsboi was asking the same things over & over on two other forums - makes you think......

Hi Ron,
It was me (Doug) who had a problem while processing one of your drawings.
Downloading wasn't the problem.
It was while converting one in my Corel Draw that the PC hung up.
I think I caused the crash myself 🤔 by doing a Master Reset while it was still 'twiddling it's thumbs' with your file.
Anyhow, after that the BIOS couldn't find the Boot sector or Operating System 😭
I've tested the drive on the new PC with an external adaptor and it just spins and spins without being recognised by the OS. 😐
Hey Ho! What the heck! The PC was 10 years old anyway 😉
Now I 'just' have to reload all my software on the new one 😝
Cheers, Doug 😎
PS Without a working PC I couldn't mention the problem before!

Doug,
You never said anything before about my drawings being too big to download. You are not using a Autodesk product, correct? Maybe I could put it on a memory stick or such and mail it to you? Or I could try saving in a zipped file or PDF.

So true Scout, so unfortunately true! 🤔
😎

Years ago we had a chap who joined the club I was a member of at the time he came to the lake with a fire boat no paint but with an ic engine. We were not allowed to run ic someone gave him a motor that was big enough to run it In the spirit of the club someone sticks a transmitter in his hand so he can have a go as some members would bring more than one model but he refuses the offer.
Turns up the following week with a coat of white paint all over, looked as though he had poured it out of the tin and spread it with a yard brush and a 540 type motor which after two or three minutes starts to slow down so he brings it in.
one of the members picks it up lifted the top off touched the motor and burnt his fingers and asks where the motor from last week is; answer I thought I would try this one to see how it went.
Following week same boat same motor 540 only held in by two two inch wood screws tell him as the motor is loose ( flapping up and down as the screws are not tight) it will rattle and pull off the universal coupling well if I tighten them up the screws will stick through the bottom of the boat someone offered him some shorter ones but no he puts the boat on the water off jumps the coupling six foot from the bank some members go to get the rowing boat to get it he keeps shouting it’s getting lower in the water when its lifted out he had took the pipe off from the water pickup for the ic motor which had been connected to the water outlet the week before.
Turns up the next week with a new glass fiber hull with holes drilled in it for the twin motors and rudders puts it in the water starts, getting some bricks off the side of the lake and puts them in the hull.
When asked what he was doing "I am ballasting it down to the water line" then takes the brick and stones out all wet by this time and asks how much does a brick weigh?
One member said well a dry brick weighs x but that one is wet been on the side of the lake for over fifty years take it home and weigh it "carnt do that we only have bathroom scales at home" it is explained to him that he would have to take off the weight of any battery, motor superstructure etc.
Following week turns up with a toy jet ski when told it will not work with the other boats being on the water but we will come off so he can have a go with it he could not wait.
Puts it on six foot out it stops gets the transmitter throws it on the floor shouting I have had no help whatsoever from this club yet two members had been to his house each week for around six weeks helping him to pick a set of plans from the club library working out what wood he needed offered to take him to the model shop which would have been the following week.
The member who was taking him to the model shop just said You know you can only help someone who wants to be helped

Ian,
I couldn't agree more.
I had also 'pulled away' after several attempts to help David.
(Especially as while processing one of Ron's huge drawing files my PC froze. Attempts to recover apparently corrupted my system hard drive (boot sector) and rendered my trusty Dell useless 😭)
Anyway, 1200 Euro and express delivery later I am 'back on air'.
As a moderator (semi-Admin) I had noticed that David had Flagged your recent Post as 'Hateful' !! For no reason that was apparent to me, so I have negated the Flag in the Admin section. Please advise me if an 'Ianh has been Flagged' message has appeared in your notifications. I hope that such messages only appear in 'Admin' Notifications but I'm not sure.

While pondering how to diplomatically respond to David's Flag I received a Private Message from him. Apparently as surrogate for Martin!
As a result of which I may have to take an unprecedented and regrettable action.
More on that shortly.
All in all a very sad story and a difficult situation.
Doug.

Hi John,
Looks like you found out how to post a link to a Build Blog 👍
You beat me to it. 🤔
I was about to post this link to the start of the Blog. 😉
https://model-boats.com/blogs/89298?sort=ASC
Cheers, Doug 😎

hi there

Just goes to prove we don't all take in what we read - duh - I have just been reading a brilliant little build by Seanympth - I just realised that this is the kit I suggested earlier on. So there is more help on here straight away 👍

You can actually see what you can achieve if you decide to start this one.

(I am trying to post a link to the build and maybe someone can help out here).
https://model-boats.com/blogs/89298#91338

John

Hi Doug and John,
I asked this question when this first started and got nowhere. The determination to build this particular boat was always in the fore. I should point out that what you learn in full size sometimes cannot be modelled without experience as mother nature puts in limitations.
The website backup can only go so far, this is why I pulled away
Regards
Ian

Absolutely John 👍
That's what we've been trying to tell David for weeks.
Gain some experience and skills before tackling his dream boat.
Otherwise his 'Dream' project may well end in frustration and tears 😠😭
I can very well understand his determination to build the boat he remembers from his youth, (I have a similar project on the stocks - recreation of a boat I lost when about 11 😭😭), but not his stubbornness in rejecting the advice of experienced modellers.
Regards, Doug 😎

Hi ya David

Have you ever considered building a very simple model - such as the one I have put on - its a Morston crab boat. It looks like it will be a simple build. You will have to source all the hardware to go with the boat - such as - prop shaft; propeller; motor; rudder and so forth - not having anything to do with the Company or the build - I presume with the instructions they would give you some indication of what hardware would be required. Here is a link to what I found whilst doing a search for another model and it may/may not interest you. Its just it may help you build a model, put a model on the water and start the fun for you without too many pitfalls. When you have started this, then you can move on to build your desired fishing boat model.

https://hakits.co.uk/?page_id=372

At least you will have some grounding in modelling.

John

No Ron they haven`t falen on deaf ears

Well said John.

I hope that has not fallen on deaf ears.

I drew up the plans from what was known and then best guess.

RB

hi there David

As the old saying goes, we are not trying to rain on your parade.

There must be over a thousand years of model boat building knowledge on this forum alone - and what we are trying to do is guide you through the pitfalls of modelling which many of us have sadly fallen deeply into on many occasions. We have learned by our mistakes. Bearing that in mind......

going back to the original fishing vessel you are building - the hull was carvel planked...

this type of planking lends itself to be shown in a model and its very hard to replicate unless you have a lot of skill in planking. This skill will only be gained by planking various other hulls. Have you got the frames drawn out and set up yet? as this will give you an indication of the size of planks you require. Also, give you such ideas of the motors and what size motor you require - these are things to think of before diving in.

John

I would say experiment with the wood you want to use.Cut different widths and thicknesses to see what is the easiest to use.Work on how to hold the planking to the frames what will work glue ; pins. How are you forming the wood (bending) will you steam .Do you have a place to layout and work .Every thing you do before you start makes it easier when building.
Rick

Hi ya David

When we build models we have to take into consideration certain things. We cannot always scale down things from the real boat to the model exactly. Same way as we will never be able to scale down the sea we sail in and the wind to the same scale as our models. Although in your original boat they will have used pitch pine and oak for the frames, the material of the timber, the oils and grain in the timber wouldn't really be a problem in the real boat. When we build a model - we cannot always use the same materials. A while ago I built a double diagonally planked hull - and I wanted to replicate the canvas and white lead paint that is used between the layers of planking, couldnt really use calico canvas and white lead paint as in the original hulls - so I reverted to using an aircraft tissue paper and pva glue. I know anyone will ever see it, until the hull is broken up - but when I tell people at the lakeside its a talking point.

The other thing to remember is 50 years ago, when these boats were first built the paints and varnishes had a lot of lead in them and noxious chemicals to help them adhere to the timbers. Now they dont have lead / harmful chemicals in the paint - also for underwater protection they used to use what is known as red lead. You never see a vessel painted with that nowadays.

But, when we build our models we replicate this red lead with non toxic paints etc.

The problem you have with using pitch pine is the grain, as well as the oils in it. You may have to even steam/dampen the planks you are using to bend round the shape of the hull. Once the heat hits the planks, it will encourage the sap and oils to rise to the surface once again.

What I strongly suggest before you assemble the model is to get some scrap bits of wood of the same material and dimensions as your planks - try gluing, varnishing, painting them and see what happens. If this is successful, then proceed - doing it this way saves (believe me) heart ache of getting half way through a hull and watching it disintegrate in front of your eyes.

John

In the reading I did about this species of wood, it said, even when working with older old, once it is cut the pitch is still there and it will bung up your cutting blade and woodworking tools.

Iam not worried about what iam going to use as it was panneling and varished over 40 years ago and probably dried out by now.

I went on a Google search for working with Pitch Pine. Yes, it was used in the boatbuilding years ago, because of the pitch sap that is in the natural wood. Read on: https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/working-with-pitch-pine.121888/

I would not wish to work with it and be continually cleaning my saw, plane, etc. There are far better species to use in your model building.

What ever method you choose to plank the boat there will be spots that require joints.As Ron has said butt or angled pieces to be joined.Where possible I put the joints on a frame for a better surface.There may be a place you don't have a frame to put a joint on I reinforce that spot on the inside. With double planking small gaps in the first layer don't affect the second layer of planks.I try to stagger all joints if possible.When joints line up that may create a weak spot.To me its like laying a hardwood floor keep joints staggered.
Rick

The origanal Boats were made of pitch pine on oak frames and varished in the mid 50 from new and were this way until the 1970s when they got painted Thats how id like to do them .

hi there, WellsBoi - I normally try and use Obechi types of wood that we generally use in modelling. I know there are people who purchase old wooden Venetian blinds and cut them down to size for planking which does seem to work well. However, I would err on caution using pitch pine as this contains (to my knowledge) oil - which may interfere with any varnish or finishing you may wish to put on the exterior. Also the grain may be a bit coarse for modelling. Like everything else in modelling, until you try it, you don't know. I know sometimes when one uses teak on full sized vessels there are problems arising when the varnish will not 'stick' to the timber due to the oils in it - the timber has to be washed down with an acetone or similar chemical, in order to remove the surface oils. You may have to do that with the pitch pine.

As a side note, here are a couple of pics of HMS Exeter which is a long sized hull at 1:96 scale (to give you an idea me work bench is just over 7 foot long - and the model just fitted in). To strengthen the hull there are 3 coats of Epoxy resin with a layer of aircraft grade tissue matting. Along with plastic card plating that is on the outside and on the inside there are 2 layers of pure epoxy finishing resin to seal the inside of the hull.

hi John.What wood are you useing.I hope to use some pitch pine that i have planed down to size

hi there,

As has been said before - there are numerous ways of planking a hull. These are a couple of methods I have used and, I am not saying that these are the correct way to do it - they are just what suits me.

First pic - you will see there is a hull which I am still in the process of completing - well over 60 inches long - and, for this hull I diagonally planked it, but you will notice that when you diagonally plank - to obtain the correct shape/curves in the hull - you need to add a lot of stringers.

Second pic - you will see the 2nd type of planking I do. Its what I call from bow to stern planking. As I have said before - any hulls larger than say 4 foot - you require to join 2 planks together to create the correct length of planking. This has already been described. Cornwall Models do sell planks 48 inches long.

Third method is what they call double planking - bow to stern and I got this idea from the magazine builds such as HMS Hood and the German ship Bismark where they apply one layer of planking to the hull and then over the top they apply a second layer of planking. As far as I can tell in the magazine builds they seem to butt joint all the planking on one frame which, to me, would create a weak point in the planking. I staggered the planking with short planks as you would when you build a wall with house bricks. You stagger the butt joints.

Anyhoos a couple of pics..... to help along the way

David, most of us do not plank the hull with one piece the full length of the hull. We make a joint over the rib. Sometime, doubling up with a “backing board” to strengthen the joints.

Any model build over 36” will require either butt joints or angular 30-60deg joints.

Maybe some of the other members on here, can post pictures of this process too.

Iam just jiggleing about adding the transom end on your drawings

http://freeshipplans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Monterey-clipper.pdf

Consider this plan, just not the wheelhouse.

Yes there the ones.Its a shame the other boat is there but better that nothing Good view of the transom

Hi, I guess you mean these two pics.
Link to his page is
https://www.flickr.com/photos/plastic_bricks/with/7808483314/
Cheers, Doug 😎

I have come across two more pics of Remus on Flickr which you can enlarge so you can see the planking and how many .one is bow end the other is side view which gives you a better look at the hull shape .However i can not fathem out how i can get the pics on here or get a link .I dont have an account and the download has been dissabled by the owner who is plastic_bricks
It is clear from the pic that Remus has a level top line from Bow to stern

Thank you for the update and letting us know a little about you.Nothing wrong with wanting to do it your way.
Rick

Haveing now read previous posts that i missed I will hopefully try and explain my situation albeit not in deatails as this wounld not help my health
I have always known how i need to approuch thing i want to do weather Diy or other hobbies .Iam self taught in most however where iam not sure i will ask ,but not very often
I worked in a factory production line for over 34y and then it closed down and i took on the role as sole carer for my mum for 10y when at the of 96y had to go into hospital .5 day later she had pheomia and had a colasped lung we lost her the following day .This has tunned my life upside down and i can not now work nearly five years on.
Iam not being stubbon but its the only way i can deal with thing at the momment .
Please just accept my greatfull thanks but i need to do it my way

Hi Ron
Iam still waiting to get some printouts next w/e from your drawings then i can glue them onto card or thin ply and see how it looks.As Mentioned Alan thinks its close to Remus just a little flat in the hull and the beam width is out a bit but apart from that and a differat wheel house they should be ok thanks

Ok iam back after some issues with old pc/and internet connections
Sorry ive not been able to reply

Hi Doug.
An interesting reply and one on which I think we can agree to disagree on certain aspects.
I also stand by my point that some of the members are justified in being upset with the response to their help.I felt the criticism was being laid against those trying to help.
I won’t labour the point as we have both had our say.

As to blocking,no I would go that far on this occasion I agree.

As you say enough said.
I am now going to ring the Samaritans following England’s horrendous performance against Scotland 😬😣

Take care and stay safe all.
Regards Bill.

I see very close resemblance with this design and Remus. Not so much the deckhouse, but the hull shape. What say ye?

http://freeshipplans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Monterey-clipper.pdf

Hi Red,
It is nice to be Appreciated Thank you.
But i still think you should be a Moderator LOL!!

Martin555.